Kickstarter employees vote to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#241

Post by chrisco255 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

advisedwang wrote: post #191

shmerl wrote: post #110

What exactly does it give the workers, better ways of dealing with management?

Leverage. Without a union, you can ask management for stuff, but they can just say no. Your only recourse then is to quit, which wouldn't change anything when it's just one person. With a union, a work stoppage is a possibility. Suddenly management have a reason to come to the negotiation table and make concessions.

First of all "asking for stuff" implies a negotiation between two parties. A negotiation implies that either party can walk away from a deal. You're implying management shouldn't be able to say no. Management is not necessarily out to get employees and excessive compensation or regulation around hiring and firing leads to either insolvency or stagnation. It's a balancing act.

A union can be just as exploitative as a company can. It's not all sunshine and rainbows.

The software industry has been regulated by demand over the last few decades. Demand is still extremely high for software devs. Managers know that employees can make moves because unemployment in our sector is something like 2%. I've worked in many industries in my life and I've never been chased down or marketed to move jobs as much as I have in software development.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#242

Post by EliRivers » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

jaredtn wrote: post #221

I would love to understand the dynamic better, so please correct me here or chime in. Tech is has one of the best combinations of (lucrative + meritocratic) I've seen. Fields that pay similarly or better (law, medicine, investment banking) require either significant time-consuming credentials or significant time investment as an underlying (like IB analyst). The interview process does require intensive preparation to…

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#243

Post by LarryDarrell » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

_sbrk wrote: post #68

I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…

It takes time, but you'll find that most of the ambitious and motivated people you'll meet are also mediocre. The successful ones tend to also have had luck on their side.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#244

Post by aty268 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

Absolutely pathetic for both sides. If you don't like your white collar tech job, go somewhere else. It's not factory work where you're paid way less to do the same thing wherever you go. You make yourselves and your company look weak in doing this.

This is why the rest of the United States thinks tech is full of a bunch of entitled pricks.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#245

Post by lawnchair_larry » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

jdkee wrote: post #100

_sbrk wrote: post #68

I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…

Millions of people across the U.S. benefit from collective bargaining, such as increased wages, health benefits and retirement security, yet one anecdotal off-topic post gets upvoted.

That’s not the correct comparison. Unions are a hedge against abusive employers when employees lack other options. They are a blunt instrument with many downsides. They make sense when the downsides are not worse than the abusive employer. This does not describe the situation with kickstarter employees, and any real union job would find this entitlement laughable.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#246

Post by vasco » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

I'm not going to express my opinion on unions because to be honest I don't know where I stand, but it's certainly interesting that the most talked about tech companies seem to be investing heavily in diversity and we hear from boards getting behind the idea that bringing different ideas to the table is positive, but when the new diverse crowd chooses to unionize this is taken as a bad surprise. Insert a surprised pikachu picture here, I guess.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#247

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #3

I really don't understand this. A career in software is one of the most pampered and lucrative ones I can think of. Due to the shortage of software engineers, we can go anywhere and get a job instantly. The only downside I can think of is ageism, but then again, I have colleagues in their 50s and 60s where I work. But I suppose this isn't universal. (I'm in Atlanta and we have a lot of older workers. Age doesn't seem…

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#248

Post by lexs » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

technotony wrote: post #226

geofft wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus and Guido a) do not control anyone's paycheck b) cannot control who decides they're interested in working on Linux and Python. The benevolent dictatorship model works great when people can vote with their feet (or their keyboards, as the case may be) whether they support the dictator in the first place. The contributors to Linux and Python have more influence over the projects than the dictators do - they conti…

You don't get to decide who leaves. If people don't like a companies dictator then they are free to go join another company. It's this competition in the free market for labor that helps prevent the abuses of tyranny.

That is a terribly naive perspective on the "free market for labor"

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#249

Post by socalnate1 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

bluedays wrote: post #236

Yeah this discussion appears to have been hijacked by thinly veiled anti-union astroturfing. I would be highly skeptical of all posts in this thread. Many of the posts literally using the exact phrases commonly repeated by anti-union propagandists. This makes me wonder if Silicon Valley is starting to see the writing on the wall and pay for disinformation campaigns in places where engineers regularly read and post. I…

Or maybe some people just have different opinions than you do? Unions are a charged topic for lots of people.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#250

Post by _sbrk » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

bluedays wrote: post #236

Yeah this discussion appears to have been hijacked by thinly veiled anti-union astroturfing. I would be highly skeptical of all posts in this thread. Many of the posts literally using the exact phrases commonly repeated by anti-union propagandists. This makes me wonder if Silicon Valley is starting to see the writing on the wall and pay for disinformation campaigns in places where engineers regularly read and post. I…

gasp You mean that all comments should be pro-union or neutral, otherwise we're being anti-union?

My goodness, I guess you should go find the steward and file a grievance.