Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 296 posts

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#241

Post by zmmmmm »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #233
zmmmmm wrote: post #223

> required by law to build into their hardware ways for authorities to access the networks for lawful purposes A bit of a tangent but ... How I hate this term "lawful purposes". It's a non-sequitor / dark pattern deployed to confuse consumers into not understanding that they mean "spy on you". "Lawful" just means compliant with the law. In other words, they are are NOT saying "necessary to enforce the law" which is w…

Are you sure you’d want to live in a society that was incapable of spying on you when they decided it was necessary? (This argument hinges on that pesky word “necessary”. But it’s worth thinking about which conditions you’d be ok with the state surveilling others, and who exactly “others” refers to.)

I think that's a perfectly reasonable debate to have.

However that's exactly why I think they should not use deceptive language to confuse people. People need to understand exactly what is being done to have trust in it and to debate it so they can form reasonable opinions - not be deceived into thinking one thing is happening when actually something much more intrusive is going on.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#242

Post by pyuser583 »

ancientworldnow wrote: post #180
agoodthrowaway wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really understand comments like this. US has lots of problems but we do have the semblance of rule of law. We do have the notion of transparency and you do not get sent to a labor camp if you have political views antithetical to the state. The Chinese can and do simply disappear people without the semblance of due process. Their history also is one of ethnic cleansing as the Han people have pushed out or marg…

The US also has a history of ethnic cleansing, is the originator of the concentration camp, has more people imprisoned than any other state in history, has black sites where police disappear people to (Chicago police department famously) as well as federal agencies doing the same, selectively prosecutes poor and minorities at disproportionate rates in terms of crimes committed and the magnitude of those crimes, and o…

That’s why the US censors the Internet. To prevent people from finding out about Martin Luther Kings March on Washington, or John Browns revolt.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#243

Post by slimed »

jessaustin wrote: post #224
slimed wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're beating around the bush. If you agree that hegemonic states engaging in imperialism isn't "special", why are you so resistant to the idea that China will behave that way once it has the opportunity? If you ask those in Tibet and Xinjiang they would argue that they already are.

You have a lively imagination with respect to what I hypothetically might intend to say. In fact, I only intended to record the oddity of your objection to thread parent [0]. Apparently we agree that large militarized states are a plague upon humanity. China is too large to see justice in governance, as USA is. However, it will have to change a great deal in twenty years in order to menace the world in the way that U…

My apologies. I should've read your profile before engaging with you in good faith. I won't make that mistake again.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#244

Post by harry8 »

wangii wrote: post #201
ancorevard wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'd prefer if neither China nor US have backdoor access." So would I, but having lived in both countries, one of the two governments is decidedly more evil than the other.

nearly 20 years ago, George Bush talked about 'evil' countries, sent troops, and... unless you are under 25 or deeply religious, I'd suggest to think twice before using 'evil' on subjects of international politics.

evil is a good word with a defined meaning. Having it mis-used should not stop us from its correct usage. Yes absoultely be vigilant about its use, the specifics and be very suspicious of generalities of "evil" in nation state politics. It's reasonable to describe the actions of any government as evil when it meets the definition.

Was George Bush Jnr performing the actions of an evil man? Discuss.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#245

Post by lstroud »

ancientworldnow wrote: post #180
agoodthrowaway wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really understand comments like this. US has lots of problems but we do have the semblance of rule of law. We do have the notion of transparency and you do not get sent to a labor camp if you have political views antithetical to the state. The Chinese can and do simply disappear people without the semblance of due process. Their history also is one of ethnic cleansing as the Han people have pushed out or marg…

The US also has a history of ethnic cleansing, is the originator of the concentration camp, has more people imprisoned than any other state in history, has black sites where police disappear people to (Chicago police department famously) as well as federal agencies doing the same, selectively prosecutes poor and minorities at disproportionate rates in terms of crimes committed and the magnitude of those crimes, and o…

Originator? You might need to expand your scope to more than the past 100 years.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#246

Post by unishark »

dependenttypes wrote: post #116
ancorevard wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'd prefer if neither China nor US have backdoor access." So would I, but having lived in both countries, one of the two governments is decidedly more evil than the other.

What is more dangerous for an American (or even European) citizen? The US or China spying at them? Even if China is more evil in its domestic affairs a western civilian has much more to fear from the US.

Millions of Chinese people visit the US. This is who China would be most concerned about monitoring anyway, and who we should be most concerned about protecting.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#247

Post by oska »

agoodthrowaway wrote: post #109
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging by the number of wars it started in the last century... it's definitely the American.

I don’t really understand comments like this. US has lots of problems but we do have the semblance of rule of law. We do have the notion of transparency and you do not get sent to a labor camp if you have political views antithetical to the state. The Chinese can and do simply disappear people without the semblance of due process. Their history also is one of ethnic cleansing as the Han people have pushed out or marg…

> I don’t really understand comments like this.

And I don't understand how you don't understand. It was a very simple point that was being made - that the US has projected far more violence outside its borders over the last century than China. It's an irrefutable point and, from the perspective of people who live neither inside China or the US and so don't have to worry for themselves about how violent those governments are inside their borders, a very pertinent one.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#248

Post by nl »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #23

> Telecom-equipment makers who sell products to carriers "are required by law to build into their hardware ways for authorities to access the networks for lawful purposes," but they "are also required to build equipment in such a way that the manufacturer can't get access without the consent of the network operator," the Journal wrote. I love this quote. The US is essentially complaining that Huawei has access to the…

That's a bad take.

There's a huge difference between a documented authorised-only interface and an undocumented backdoor.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#249

Post by nucleardog »

dependenttypes wrote: post #116
ancorevard wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'd prefer if neither China nor US have backdoor access." So would I, but having lived in both countries, one of the two governments is decidedly more evil than the other.

What is more dangerous for an American (or even European) citizen? The US or China spying at them? Even if China is more evil in its domestic affairs a western civilian has much more to fear from the US.

They have more to fear from China.

China does not respect the sovereignty of other nations, nor the rule of law. They are not above intimidating, blackmailing, or otherwise exerting their influence on foreign nationals on foreign soil when their views become too politically inconvenient.

Those residing and holding citizenship abroad but that have family back in China (which are many) have proven especially vulnenable.

Stories of China arresting foreign citizens for activities abroad and never allowing consular access, funding and manipulating groups in foreign countries (especially on university campuses) and then directing them to silence others, and more are a dime a dozen.

While the US's hands are quite dirty here as well, China has shown repeatedly that given the opportunity they are more than willing to try and implement the kind of oppression and thought policing they have at home in places abroad. It is more dangerous for the entire world to have China spying on them than it is the US.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#250

Post by simonh »

dependenttypes wrote: post #116
ancorevard wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'd prefer if neither China nor US have backdoor access." So would I, but having lived in both countries, one of the two governments is decidedly more evil than the other.

What is more dangerous for an American (or even European) citizen? The US or China spying at them? Even if China is more evil in its domestic affairs a western civilian has much more to fear from the US.

Well, the PLA has been caught red handed, twice, hacking Western firms and financial insitutions, including installing malware and identify theft which could be used to impersonate and hack members of the public. The USA is far from clean on this issue, but I don't think we know enough to properly characterise the relative threats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Unit_61398

Post reply on HN