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iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

appleinsider.com

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Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#241

Post by lern_too_spel »

freehunter wrote: post #69
endorphone wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humorous, but the curse of Android devices is that every single app demands a perpetual background service doing close to nothing. Of course we see the same thing on Windows and macOS where everyone thinks they need their own background daemons for the most absurdly simple task. I definitely prefer the iOS model.

I don’t see why it can’t be requested like any other permission. Otherwise apps just abuse location and audio to make it work anyway. It’s not like apps AREN’T working in the background.

That's indeed how it works on Android. If you want to have a high priority background task that isn't among the first to get killed when another app needs more memory, you have to tell the OS to show a notification that is displayed until the user shuts down the service.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#242

Post by lern_too_spel »

Despegar wrote: post #33
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And somehow Apple approved this usage of location data. On one hand I agree with you, that's crazy that your SSH program put that limit on there for clearly tracking purposes. But I guess I sort of disagree this is Apple's problem to solve. It's yours. Apple made the changes to inform and educate you the customer that an app that is abusing your trust. The solution is not to force Apple to police developers but for…

>The solution is not to force Apple to police developers but for you to stop using Terminus. The actual scalable solution is for Congress or states to pass GDPR-style privacy legislation (or CCPA if your politicians are captured by tech industry interests).

The scalable solution is to stop using Apple products and use platforms that let you do what you want without resorting to silly hacks that might hide actual privacy violations.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#243

Post by Phylter »

Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

I'm an iOS user that moved from Android. I'll never go back to Android as my phone OS. With that said, Android has a lot to offer that makes it worthwhile. It just depends on what you're looking for. Thought the number of people that are privacy aware is growing it's still not what people care about most in an OS.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#244

Post by agra »

The major carriers sell real time location data, and have repeatedly lied about ending the practice. Sandboxing apps can't solve that problem, only democracy can.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvqgnd/sprint-stop-sellin...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nepxbz/i-gave-a-bounty-hu...

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#245

Post by agra »

Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

The major carriers sell real time location data, and have repeatedly lied about ending the practice. Sandboxing apps can't solve that problem, only democracy can.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvqgnd/sprint-stop-sellin...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nepxbz/i-gave-a-bounty-hu...

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#246

Post by endorphone »

endorphone wrote: post #68
freehunter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem as I understand it isn’t the ssh connection being dropped but the app being closed and needing to reload. Because iOS devices don’t have enough RAM to keep an app in the background while also running Safari.

Humorous, but the curse of Android devices is that every single app demands a perpetual background service doing close to nothing. Of course we see the same thing on Windows and macOS where everyone thinks they need their own background daemons for the most absurdly simple task. I definitely prefer the iOS model.

Of all the things to be controversial, this has to be the most surprising: Who knew that HN was so much in love with egregious and unnecessary background daemons.

99.9999% of the time the most that is necessary is an occasional scheduled task. No, your picture of cats app doesn't need to run a busy loop pinging a server. Learn how to use the core messaging infrastructure of the platforms you target.

No, Chrome doesn't need to run a perpetual service just to check for updates.

These are not controversial claims.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#247

Post by mikeryan »

_bxg1 wrote: post #60
freehunter wrote: post #24

On the other hand Apple has forced apps to use location data for purposes it should not be used for. Termius, for example, is my favorite iOS SSH app. But according to them, they can’t keep an SSH session running in the background unless they’re constantly tracking your location data. And somehow Apple approved this usage of location data. I don’t want to give Termius my location. I don’t want them tracking me everyw…

iOS really needs a channel for legitimate, real background apps. A lot of its battery life and security advantages over Android come from the fact that it doesn't allow a wild-west of background processes, but there are certain cases where you really do just need that. Apple is good at taking use-cases and creating cohesive stories around the right way to serve them; this one has been long-coming.

I honestly don’t know how you manage this with a normal user/consumer without a flood of “my battery life is gone” complaints.

Even with opt-In messaging how many people just click “ok” thinking the app needs it.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#248

Post by endorphone »

freehunter wrote: post #69
endorphone wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humorous, but the curse of Android devices is that every single app demands a perpetual background service doing close to nothing. Of course we see the same thing on Windows and macOS where everyone thinks they need their own background daemons for the most absurdly simple task. I definitely prefer the iOS model.

I don’t see why it can’t be requested like any other permission. Otherwise apps just abuse location and audio to make it work anyway. It’s not like apps AREN’T working in the background.

There are extraordinarily few cases where apps on iOS need to run in the background, beyond what can be accomplished via a periodic scheduled task or the system eventing infrastructure. And the notion paraded here that every app is secretly doing it by pretending that it's playing audio is nonsense that has little correlation with reality.

Android very recently -- at API level 26 -- added restrictions on background tasks for that platform (and it's much more involved than if you display a notification or not). Before that every app developer just spun up a background service for everything, and anyone who has done an iota of development on Android devices saw the tragedy of the commons that the platform became. So kudos to Google for cleaning it up a bit. Of course Samsung, Google and others just declare themselves immune from those restrictions and it's just a smaller problem, not a solved problem.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#249

Post by lostsock »

JoBrad wrote: post #174
ncallaway wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't used Android in a while but I assume it doesn't have this. I've started getting these notifications on my Android device. Each app that makes a location request in the background causes a notification that allows me to take away location access from the app, only allow location access when the app is in the foreground, or always allow location access.

This notification is slightly different: you still get a notification when an app asks for permission. But later on you get a notification telling you that the app has been using a given feature x times, and you have the choice of changing the permission again. For location, it also shows a map of each location gathered by the app.

The same is true on Android, at least for me on my Pixel 4[1]

1: https://www.androidpolice.com/wp-content/themes/ap2/ap_resiz...

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#250

Post by abeyer »

heavyset_go wrote: post #184
chewz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can also easily mock GPS on Android and there are apps for that.

Apps can detect this, and some apps will ban you if you mock your location.

Wait, they'll ban me from their privacy-invading malvertising? Where do I sign up?
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