U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#241

Post by LeonM » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #235

LeonM wrote: post #232

Alcohol culture differs per region. In most western Europe countries (Netherlands, Germany) alcohol free / low-ABV beer has been gaining a lot of popularity. More and more people, myself included, prefer alcohol free over regular beer, because you get the social benefits without the all the downsides of alcohol. However, during my visit to Canada last year I asked a waiter at a bar for an alcohol free beer and she ba…

I have never seen alcohol free beer offered in Berlin or Amsterdam. I can’t tell whether I just haven’t noticed, or whether your experience is really specific.

All major German and Dutch beer brands have alcohol free versions. I'd estimate that about 1/4th of the shelf space in the beer department in my local supermarket (Albert Heijn) is dedicated to alcohol free or low ABV beer.

I'm pretty confident to say that just about every bar and restaurant in the Netherlands serves alcohol free beer.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#242

Post by vasilipupkin » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:09 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #238

vasilipupkin wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read this carefully, that’s not what this study says. 3 leading causes of death they associate with alcohol globally is tuberculosis, road accidents and self harm. Obviously none of those three apply to a moderate drinker ( who doesn’t drink and drive ) Here is a quote right from this paper “Females, particularly in high SDI locations, experienced some protective effects for ischaemic heart disease and diabete…

> Obviously none of those three apply to a moderate drinker I don't think you can say that.

Well, I mean these findings describe the overall probability or impact of alcohol, which includes injuries and tuberculosis. Tuberculosis is not exactly an issue for most readers of this website and injuries can be avoided if you don’t drink and drive. For example, I drink moderately but never ever drink and drive. So, statistics on alcohol harm that include injures from drinking and driving are completely irrelevant to my personal decision to drink or not.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#243

Post by DanBC » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:16 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #240

Ok so now I’ve been running around looking at charts. To clarify: I think alcohol can be a pernicious social and mental health problem. But there’s also something weird with 1999. Suicides seemed lowest that year and I think that might relate to the drinking deaths as well. Which makes comparing to that year a little dicey, because I think it creates a false sense of a trend that might not exist.

> But there’s also something weird with 1999

Are you looking at the year the death happened, or the year it was registered?

We think there's a "cohort effect" with suicide deaths. So, all people born in decade X have a higher rate of death by suicide, and we see this as they get older. Here's an example from England.

https://twitter.com/ProfLAppleby/status/1161940914308300801?...

Here's CDC suggesting that may be a factor: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6217a1.htm?s_cid...

> Possible contributing factors for the rise in suicide rates among middle-aged adults include the recent economic downturn (historically, suicide rates tend to correlate with business cycles, with higher rates observed during times of economic hardship) (6,7); a cohort effect, based on evidence that the "baby boomer" generation had unusually high suicide rates during their adolescent years (8); and a rise in intentional overdoses associated with the increase in availability of prescription opioids (1,2). Additional research is needed to understand the cause of the increase in age-adjusted suicide rates and why the extent of the increase varies across racial/ethnic populations.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#244

Post by ilaksh » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

Take a look at research like this "Macroeconomic conditions and alcohol consumption: When the economy is down, alcohol consumption goes up".

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#245

Post by torgian » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

exotree wrote: post #153

throwaway287391 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> avoiding was a non starter so the "escape plan" was I committed to leave, akwardly as it may be, before i picked up a drink. > aka if someobdy was pressuring me to drink to the point i felt i had to i would say "ok get me a beer i have to go to the bathroom" and then disappear and blame it on an upset stomach I hope this doesn't come across as rude, but I don't understand -- why was pretending to get sick easier th…

In many rooms that kind of honesty can easily be interpreted as weakness. And it’s not so much what they say to you in the moment (we all have to keep up our pretenses)... it’s what they say when you’re out of the room. Is it fair? Nope. But that’s how it works in certain social settings.

Everyone likes an honest person until they meet an honest person. Lol.

I wish people didn’t have to feel pressure to hide behind platitudes and white lies just to be socially acceptable.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#246

Post by watwut » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

elfexec wrote: post #231

watwut wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Childbirths went down everywhere easter and central Europe. And it is not just poverty - if anything midle class and educated women are less likely to have kids. It is often oportunities to not be mom at home that attract women. "Objective analysis" that centers on birthrate only is not objective at all. Especially when it ignores effects of Stalin rule on people and conflates ruling party health with populace health…

> Childbirths went down everywhere easter and central Europe Yes, warsaw pact nations and former eastern european soviet nations also suffered. But russia suffered the most since they were the core of the soviet union. > And it is not just poverty - if anything midle class and educated women are less likely to have kids. I didn't say it was. My point was that the russian population dropped from near 150 million in th…

Yes, yeltsin's or putin's rule were better then Stalin rule.

> Not sure why you are bring communism or stalin into the mix. The 10 years after ww2 were far better for russians than the 10 years after the soviet collapse.

Bringing up Stalin, cause you talk about period of history when stalin ruled - after ww2.

And absolutely, Russian people were not better off after ww2 - the country was still destroyed, villages still burned and only slowly rebuilding, dictatorship was in full swing, including very real oppression, torture fear and what not. Oh, and purges were right before that war, so country started it already down.

After wwii: Famine of 1946-1947 with some residue of famine in 1948. Good thing indicators grew after that, but that makes people just not dying of hunger rather then we'll off.

Guess what: russia focused of heavy industries at expense of foodstuff for people. Plus, economic indicators are better when you steal from other countries - which they did.

The war was followed by smaller purges, to the point some expected large ones to start around stalin death. Closely after war is when cultural purge happened.

Not even speaking about what russia did in territories they took over (and no we did not wanted them) and what they did to Ukraine.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#247

Post by Retric » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:29 PM UTC

ccsnags wrote: post #92

dranktoomuch wrote: post #20

Hey gang. I've been an HN member for a long time, fairly prominent Bay Area tech executive, rich in the sense of both bank accounts and family. Alcohol brought me to my knees in my late 20s / early 30s. It started out as the typical "social lubricant" to help a natural introvert be better at connecting with people and was wonderful at that - I was the life of the party. Over a decade it leaked into a "requirement" fo…

Early to late twenties for me. I struggled through AA but I found it to be too defeatist. I couldn’t get clean framing the problem the way that they do. The turning point for me was a joke by a stand up comedian that kind of glorified being a drunk. Doug Stanhope had a line similar to “addiction is just a thing you like doing more than living your life”. I chose to live my life. I got hobbies, took classes, worked a…

The issue is for many people this is an unstable equilibrium. When things start going wrong people drink more which makes things worse.

My best friend was a raging alcoholic for 20 years, he would go through cycles of moderate then heavy drinking, hit bottom, give it up for a few months, and repeat. Unfortunately he simply loved alcohol and really did not want to give it up.

Total abstinence seems like it gives up a huge positive, but insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Many people simply can’t have alcohol in their lives and be happy long term. That might not be you, but it’s something to think about.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#248

Post by matwood » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:29 PM UTC

throwaway287391 wrote: post #124

dranktoomuch wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question, the first year my sponsor said "avoid those events or have an escape plan" avoiding was a non starter so the "escape plan" was I committed to leave, akwardly as it may be, before i picked up a drink. aka if someobdy was pressuring me to drink to the point i felt i had to i would say "ok get me a beer i have to go to the bathroom" and then disappear and blame it on an upset stomach and believe the trut…

> avoiding was a non starter so the "escape plan" was I committed to leave, akwardly as it may be, before i picked up a drink. > aka if someobdy was pressuring me to drink to the point i felt i had to i would say "ok get me a beer i have to go to the bathroom" and then disappear and blame it on an upset stomach I hope this doesn't come across as rude, but I don't understand -- why was pretending to get sick easier th…

A lot of times it's just an uncomfortable question to answer, even more so for someone who is already a bit socially awkward. I've never had a problem with alcohol, but routinely go through periods where I just abstain for various reasons. And in those periods I get all the questions about why I'm not drinking. It's just boring to answer them over and over. And to be clear, no one is being a jerk about it, just more of a curiosity. Many people can't imagine not drinking, so it's a surprise.

As an aside, a trick I use to control the number of drinks in a business situation is to order liquor neat. I can sip a scotch for an entire meal while other people drink multiple beers or mixed drinks. Don't order something that's easy to drink.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#249

Post by matwood » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:44 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #122

My father is an alcoholic. (in his case, he went to rehab and doesn't drink much anymore but he is still an alcoholic) I used to think that I was going to drink at one point. I remember thinking, "if I was of age I'd like to buy that lady a drink." But by the time I turned of age and could, I decided I wouldn't touch it. I'd never really been offered alcohol growing up - so maybe that helped settle in the habit. But,…

My dad lost everything because of alcohol and still to this day will not admit that was the cause. It definitely led me to treat alcohol with care. I have been drunk before and enjoy good beer, wine, and spirits. But, I've also gone long periods without drinking at all. If someone said tomorrow I couldn't drink again that would be fine, although I'd like to drink my aging bottle of Châteauneuf-du-Pape first :)

My attitude has caused weird things in relationships though. I was in a serious relationship when I was younger and while discussing kids I told her that if I ever had kids I would never drink again. The girl was beside herself and ended up mad at me about that for some reason. She just didn't understand what I saw and experienced growing up. Among other things, there is a smell that comes from heavy drinkers in the morning and it's not something I would ever want my kids to experience.

Possible too much information, but if someone can find comfort or benefit in knowing bits of my story then it's a good thing.

Re: U.S. alcohol-related deaths have doubled, study says

#250

Post by whiddershins » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 1:45 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #243

whiddershins wrote: post #240

Ok so now I’ve been running around looking at charts. To clarify: I think alcohol can be a pernicious social and mental health problem. But there’s also something weird with 1999. Suicides seemed lowest that year and I think that might relate to the drinking deaths as well. Which makes comparing to that year a little dicey, because I think it creates a false sense of a trend that might not exist.

> But there’s also something weird with 1999 Are you looking at the year the death happened, or the year it was registered? We think there's a "cohort effect" with suicide deaths. So, all people born in decade X have a higher rate of death by suicide, and we see this as they get older. Here's an example from England. https://twitter.com/ProfLAppleby/status/1161940914308300801?... Here's CDC suggesting that may be a f…

That’s extremely interesting.

That chart is fascinating.

I don’t think that really addresses my point though. My point is that comparing to 1999 might create a skewed statistical perspective because that seems to be around the time when Americans were engaging in the least self harm.