241–250 of 513 posts
Looks like, within minutes, most of the anti-union FUD has already been covered here: Tech workers make a lot of money so they don’t need unions. Tech workers have lots of options and can get a new job so they don’t need unions. Computer work isn’t physically demanding therefore unions aren’t useful. Nobody in tech wants to be told by their union what they should work on. Unions only give older people seniority and p…
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Let's use Facebook as an example. The median employee salary is $240,000 [1], but Facebook makes an average of $1,620,000 in revenue per employee [2]. Why is it okay for a company to extract a so much more money from an employee than they pay them, but not okay for employees to band together to get paid what they're worth? [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-median-pay-240000-2... [2] https://www.businessins…
> but not okay for employees to band together to get paid what they're worth? Does not Facebook also retain the right to hire employees willing to take less?
If the entire staff is unionized and ready to fight, facebook can't just hire outside staff. Too much knowledge.
Also the historical union attitude towards scab labour is another way to prevent this.
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The best outcome is the industry self-regulating these amendments into their business practices under the threat of unionizing, rather than actually turning the industry into an institution itself and losing it's creative spark.
The industry has had roughly 4 decades to make those self-regulating adjustments, how much longer should we wait?
For most of gaming's history it has been a niche product without mainstream appeal. Do you unionize every fledgling industry? No. It hasn't been four decades in the making. The majority of bad sentiment has come in the past five years, exacerbated by a goldrush mentality and kickstarter burns. The goldrush is over, the big projects are paying out massively to employees. Star Citizen has spent hundred of millions on staff and capital and needs to raise more. Epic is pouring cash back into the industry rewarding workers.
There are more people employed in the industry than ever and some see the collective as a route to personal power. I can't agree with that.
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Let's use Facebook as an example. The median employee salary is $240,000 [1], but Facebook makes an average of $1,620,000 in revenue per employee [2]. Why is it okay for a company to extract a so much more money from an employee than they pay them, but not okay for employees to band together to get paid what they're worth? [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-median-pay-240000-2... [2] https://www.businessins…
I don't think anyone is arguing that you shouldn't freely associate. Facebook employees who want to collectively bargain should be allowed to. That's just free association. They just shouldn't be allowed to prevent other employees from not unionizing and working without the union. And then, lots of people can choose not to unionize. Personally, I think few FBers will unionize. And then perhaps you could negotiate per…
Yes they should. Repeal all right to work laws.
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> What do you actually have to lose? In some parts of the US, the answer is "Our industry". There are areas where a reasonable argument can be made that overweening unions played a key role in setting up the local economy for cataclysmic failure. Detroit is an example. That said , video games production doesn't look like that right now. It's just perhaps worth considering that people's fears might not be wholly merit…
But again. This doesn't hold up to a straight forward comparison to many European countries. If labour costs would be so detrimental to employment we'd still be queuing to the transatlantic ocean liners.
- EU Youth Unemployment Rate: August 2019 https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemploymen...
- US Youth Unemployment Rate: November 2018 - December 2019: https://www.statista.com/statistics/217448/seasonally-adjust...
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> I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human You agree that this things are happening and its not OK. why do you follow that up with: > but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Clearly if people are being taken advantage of its an issue. And its issue for large enough percentage of workforce for us to talk about it. Also this is global problem and…
What infuriates me about the GP post is: unionizing is literally one of the options they have. It's enshrined in law, has a long history, has been implemented to great benefit to scores of people worldwide -- why shouldn't that option be on the table as well for these workers? And, frankly speaking, "go find another job" is a terrible rejoinder, if they like their job, but don't like their working conditions, let the…
They just think they are smarter/better/more rational.
I disagree. I think you have just eaten up the propaganda pushed by billionaires. There is an entire industry that is dedicated to pushing anti-union propaganda.
I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…
Let's use Facebook as an example. The median employee salary is $240,000 [1], but Facebook makes an average of $1,620,000 in revenue per employee [2]. Why is it okay for a company to extract a so much more money from an employee than they pay them, but not okay for employees to band together to get paid what they're worth? [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-median-pay-240000-2... [2] https://www.businessins…
Salaries are based on supply and demand, not value generated. More developers at your skill level = lower salaries for everyone. More successful companies competing for talent = higher salaries for everyone.
If you want compensation based on value to the company, that's stock options or partial ownership.
Tons of companies fail because they pay their employees more than the value they create.
The salary a FAANG or any company offers is designed to be a win/win. The employee gets a fixed income they can plan their life around and the employer gets the potential upside of generating more revenue. As long as the marketplace is competitive and unbiased this works really well.
Please also remember that revenue != profit. If I run a business and I generate $1.6M in revenue off of a $300k employee, it doesn't mean I'm walking home with $1.3M in my pocket.
And running a business isn't exactly easy. If it was so easy to generate $1.6M off of a $300k employee, you'd be flooded with other companies willing to pay higher and higher salaries. It's really, difficult and rare.
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> creating more opportunities for young new grads to break in Just going to point out, everywhere, I have ever heard of a union it generally made it harder for new people to come in, not easier, by increasing the commitment an employer is expected to make to an employee, and by making it harder to remove employees that need to be removed but can't because of their seniority with the union.
The screen writers guild has some systems in place to ensure that a certain amount of scripts from 'new writers' have to be taken in. Not sure how effective that is, but that's a thing. I was basically thinking about my present company that has done a great job of bringing in coops from local universities for work terms. We've had a great experience with this. However, this is one of the only games companies I've wor…
This is good. I probably won't bother engaging with people who disagree. Also going to say to the "i can organize a better deal myself" types. Google and other companies with a combined market cap of trillions spent years illegally conspiring to keep you wages lower. You can't compete with that. The current situation is an artifact of extreme demand. We already have worse protections than the average worker. When thi…
Is that why the average worker gets paid massively less than we tech workers do?
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A union position has immediate reward, if they've negotiated better vacation, sick leave, and job security etc than the alternative.
I have a relative who is a Teamster and pays $16k in Union dues a year. He said the math on his benefits only works out for him if he works for more than 15 years in the same position. Obviously different for different unions, but the vast majority of benefits in most unions go to those with seniority.
Apparently, comparisons between the US and Europe don't work here either.
Maybe this is because "union shops" are allowed in the USA. Article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights forbids them (the right to free association is taken to provide the right not to associate).
https://unitetheunion.org/why-join/join-unite/contribution-r...