E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need • Hacker News Board

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#241

Post by downerending » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

alisonatwork wrote: post #222

asdff wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sort of rule of thumb works fine with an abled bodied sober and alert adult, but throw in someone with a disability, an elderly person, a toddler, and suddenly it makes far more sense to have the bike/moped on the road and just offer the gutter at the very least for a bike lane. A road bike can kill a toddler.

Usually the way it works here is if a rider sees a kid or older person then they will slow down to walking pace and only pass when it's safe. Pedestrians still have right of way, after all. I am not against dedicated roads for bikes (although depending on the city's density, they can just end up as a second sidewalk), but I also think it shouldn't be treated as a prerequisite for developing a bike culture.

For many years I rode and was in favor of "bike culture". Now that I finally live in such a place, though, it's quite clear that this experiment is a failure. Bicyclists ride as they like, without respect to laws or even likely tragedies, and there is no countervailing force to reign them in. I cannot walk a block without observing a bicyclist breaking a law or risking someone's life (often their own).

If bicyclists want this mode of transportation to be taken seriously, they need to start self-policing in a major way. So far I'm seeing not even a hint of that.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#242

Post by touisteur » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #36

nkingsy wrote: post #6

I ebike 20 miles for work every day and live it. I don’t use my ebike for small errands because it’s too easy to just rip expensive stuff off of it while locked up. Also, the picture shows a rider with no helmet which is insane. I wear a motorcycle helmet and leathers. The speed limit for ebikes on roads in CA is 28, which is deadly with even a normal bike helmet. Finally the article says that the new models are ligh…

I built myself an ebike with a Bafang BBS02 18 months ago, and use it constantly. The main problems are: - No safe parking anywhere. So far so good but it's only a matter of time before my bike gets stolen. - Range. Much too short (less than 40km in my experience). Yet, it's fantastic. It changed my life. It almost totally replaced my motorbike for every trip except the longest ones (I live in Paris so most trips are…

Just purchased a cargo bike, and with full load (1 adult, 2 16kg kids and lots of 'cargo') we get 80km autonomy in 'normal' (no effort, light speed) mode. Even the 'high' mode (ridiculous) we get 50km range.

This tech is amazing...

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#243

Post by chinesempire » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 10:17 AM UTC

Grue3 wrote: post #225

chinesempire wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being hit by a bike is nothing like being hit by a car You're completely right! Cars are engineered to reduce the damages of a direct impact. Bikes are not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_safety_through_vehi... Studies agree that the damages are mostly caused by speed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24435732 E-bikes can go at very high speeds (30km/h is more than enough to be deadly) and can do it eff…

And yet how many people die from being hit by bikes? It's barely even an issue. Even in European cities where you can step on the wrong side of a sidewalk and instantly get smashed into. It's an imaginary problem. >Add to that the fact that a car can break or avoid obstacles in a much more efficient way than a bike could ever do That's obviously false. Just consider the stuff that BMX bikes can do in terms of maneuve…

> And yet how many people die from being hit by bikes? It's barely even an issue

First of all, it's all in the news, I'm not making things up

https://nypost.com/2019/08/31/nyc-bicyclists-are-killing-ped...

Or you can look at this, specifically the chapters "Cyclist Deaths and Impairment", "Cyclist Helmets Statistics" and "Staying Safe while Cycling"

https://bayareabicyclelaw.com/safety-laws/bike-stats/

and we don't have enough data (AKA it's not been collected until few years ago) to say that "it's barely even an issue"

Secondly, bikers most of all kill themselves.

"One in five people injured on Australian roads and paths is a cyclist, according to a new Australian Institute of Health and Welfare report"

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/injury/pedal-cyclist-injury-...

Is it because of the road conditions, the presence of cars or other vehicles?

Or is it because cyclists underestimate the risks?

According to the same study, motorcyclists only account for 2.7% of the hospitalizations.

They share the road with cars as well, they go faster than bikes on the same roads.

What could be different?

Could it be that the safety measures engineered in motorbikes and the safety measures motorbikers take to protect themselves are actually useful to reduce physical damages?

Even Netherlands has a big problem with bikers dying more than ever because of underestimating risks.

https://www.iamexpat.nl/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/death-toll-...

> That's obviously false. Just consider the stuff that BMX bikes can do in terms of maneuvering

An expert biker on a BMX you mean!

If I give a BMX to my mother, 71 years old, she couldn't even ride it.

It's like saying "now look what this rally pilot can do on terrain with their fine tuned 4wd monster car"

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#244

Post by riversflow » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

wffurr wrote: post #236

riversflow wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? I think cars are fine, probably one of the greatest aspects of the modern human experience. I think all this “cars are horrible” talk is just edgy millennials who are now parents, worried about their out of control and highly distracted children. They’ve got their life in a situation that they can do without a car and as a result think that everyone else should do without too.

Wow, that's one way to look at 30,000 dead per year in the US alone. Sure, I am "just" worried about the number one cause of death for children 3 and up. To say nothing of the costs car culture forces on individuals, the climate, the economy, etc. Your "greatest aspect of the modern human experience" entails an enormous amount of human suffering too, you just choose not to see it or acknowledge it.

It’s not that I don’t see it, it’s that I accept it. 30k people per year dying (and many more getting mangled) is a tragedy, but dying is a fundamental part of living. Sucks not to be immortal. We live in a country that is practically defined by having large distances between everything, and values personal space highly. I’d posit that you have it backward, car culture developed as a result of Americans’ culture of traveling and personal space. That some urban dwellers don’t like this is their problem, as a minority in a society that likes space and developed cars as a result.

How many people die each year to get us high tech? I can’t find good numbers, but with all the mining and refining required(and done under lax/no labor/environmental laws) I’m sure it’s shocking. Fossil fuels(4.5M) kill far more people than cars(1.24M) globally[1] so lets shut off the lights too, while we’re at it.

I clearly do not see eye to eye with you at all about death(which I find to be (relative to you) really not that big of a deal, especially children), so I’d rather not go there.

[1] https://qz.com/568450/fossil-fuels-kill-more-people-every-ye...