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Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

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Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#241

Post by emmelaich »

karlding wrote: post #156
emmelaich wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! I have a 1999 Sony amp and some older (1980s) Wharfedale speakers. Nothing I've bought in the last 25 years sounds remotely as good as them. And plugging in a Chromecast audio has given it immortality.

What's the current best alternative to a Chromecast Audio, now that they're discontinued and no longer as readily available? My current living room setup is a Chromecast Audio connected to an AVR via the optical out connection, which powers my speakers, but I'm curious if there's any alternatives. The eBay sellers are really starting to price-gouge, and I'm not naive enough to believe that my Chromecast Audio will la…

You can use a small computer and remote control it somehow.

Or use a Chromecast Ultra and connect to the hi-fi with a hdmi to audio (spdif, 3.5", ...) or hdmi to vga+audio (and don't bother connect the vga to anything)

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#242

Post by aryamaan »

overgard wrote: post #110
userbinator wrote: post #106

If there's a demand, someone industrious will likely figure out a hack --- I hope. Server-side blacklisting (unlike whitelisting) doesn't stop someone from simply changing whatever unique ID they have to a different one. I can even see repair shops doing this service for those who accidentally bricked their devices. This reminds me of a related situation I've seen with electric toothbrushes --- they have instructions…

> Server-side blacklisting (unlike whitelisting) doesn't stop someone from simply changing whatever unique ID they have to a different one. Dunno, if the ID works like an activation key it might not recognize ids that don’t pass some sort of cryptographic signature check. Then you would need the private key to generate new valid ids.

How about copying them from valid machines then?

May be they generate new tokens for every request and one set of the key is in hardware itself protected.

Such a waste of tech and resources to not let use the very things which they purchased.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#243

Post by mark-r »

SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #170
foxrob92 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I inherited a pair of speakers my dad bought in the early 80s. They still work well, though the amp died last year and I wasn't able to repair it.

You can get a number of small amps these days that will plug into the speakers and sound great. Many will also support Bluetooth so you can stream to your stereo.

Bluetooth is the biggest joke foisted on audio. Even at its best there is mandated compression, which means the highest quality signal will be mashed into a lowest common denominator piece of garbage.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#244

Post by lightedman »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #28
noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

Millennial audiophools need their 192kHz 32-bit playback. Grandpa's sound system just won't cut it for reproducing those refined ultrasonics.

Even 256kHz 48-bit can't even get close to what I need when it comes to pitch-shifting an audio sample up even one single octave. It produces audible 'warbling' like a poorly-encoded MP3, or a badly-fatigued guitar string.

We aren't close to peak audio, yet.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#245

Post by lightedman »

echelon wrote: post #157
nullc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This could go very bad for Sonos. How could it? It's all server side. If such a virus existed, they'd just undo all the 'recycling' after the day it started circulating.

There's both a hardware and software bricking component. Edit: I reread the thread and now I'm not so sure. It might be entirely software blacklisting. But if that's the case, can't you ip blackhole Sonos' servers and still have it all work?

Server is hardware, controlling OS and such is software. Both bricking components are present.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#246

Post by savrajsingh »

whoisjuan wrote: post #219
song wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People understand the purpose of it quite well. They just completely disagree with your analysis. First, the most environmental form of recycling is for an object to be reused as is. So, if any item is given to a recycling center, if the recycling center can just sell it directly to someone else, then it's much more environmentally friendly. Second, the credit doesn't encourage people to recycle them at all instead o…

> So, if any item is given to a recycling center, if the recycling center can just sell it directly to someone else, then it's much more environmentally friendly. I think OP's analysis did cover that. You don't have to put it in the recycle mode. You can sell it yourself or choose not to get the credit so someone else can "Recycle" it by reusing it. I do agree with you that people could still put in the trash, but I…

Recycling electronics is extremely difficult and non-trivial. See the Netflix series “broken” -> plastics for a deep-dive. If the company claims it’s super environmentally friendly, it should incentivize reuse of existing products. Instead it’s saying, “want a discount to spend more money with us? Great. Let’s get you a discount by creating an extremely difficult and mostly unrecyclable paperweight out of what you have, first.” They could have said “refer a friend and we’ll give you a discount” etc

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#247

Post by caf »

xp84 wrote: post #92
londons_explore wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume Apple and other companies sell the used products to liquidators who refurbish and resell them. Is that not true? For high brand value goods, generally no. Goods are crushed to become unserviceable. It's important to do that to maintain brand image, otherwise floods of not-very-old iPhones end up on ebay for $10, and the image of an iPhone as something that lasts and has resale value is shattered. High end…

Sure, many things do get destroyed for branding reasons. This is an overgeneralization though to say that's definitely what Apple or someone else normally does with electronics. Plenty of the devices Apple gets back (or significant components from them) do end up on the refurbished channel. And the same goes for all their competitors. Tons of phones are refurbished. Go on eBay or Amazon or Groupon etc and there are h…

Sometimes if you send your device for repair to Apple you get a refurbed unit back instead.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#248

Post by Hackbraten »

zxcb1 wrote: post #196
baybal2 wrote: post #7

Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it. You have to keep paying them for using your own property or else they remotely brick the device. First gen Ipods were a prime example, but now everybody seem to want to do the same. We recently had a prospective client who had an idea of very cheap intern…

Yes. It is painful to realize that Apple has turned into that. My reference example is a Mac Mini and MacBook Pro which I bought around 2012. Both still work, and are upgraded with dual SSD and 16GB RAM. It is, however, not possible to upgrade or even reinstall the OS. Linux is now the only option, which without they would be useless. With my latest MacBook Pro, I already know that there are no upgrades, the keyboard…

> It is, however, not possible to upgrade or even reinstall the OS.

I don’t feel it’s fair to expect a vendor to actively develop major feature upgrades for a seven-year-old computer.

What keeps you from downloading and installing macOS High Sierra or Mojave on your 2012 hardware? Both versions still receive security updates, don’t they?

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#249

Post by hanniabu »

nialv7 wrote: post #232
whoisjuan wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, if any item is given to a recycling center, if the recycling center can just sell it directly to someone else, then it's much more environmentally friendly. I think OP's analysis did cover that. You don't have to put it in the recycle mode. You can sell it yourself or choose not to get the credit so someone else can "Recycle" it by reusing it. I do agree with you that people could still put in the trash, but I…

If they really want to encourage reuse of their devices, why would they incentivize the users to turn their devices into unusable trash by giving them credits for doing that? > but I also think that's where good recycling programs matter. However good your recycling program is, it is still going to be _strictly more_ wasteful than simply reusing the device.

> If they really want to encourage reuse of their devices, why would they incentivize the users to turn their devices into unusable trash by giving them credits for doing that?

It's another alternative. Some people just won't bother trying to resell it.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#250

Post by asveikau »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #229
Aeolun wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The end result of all this is to say Sonos doesn’t give a whit about the environment though. If that was the case they would allow someone at the recycle center to buy their old equipment, and the original owner to buy a new one with a discount (for being a loyal customer, and presumably still making a profit).

Why would a recycling center want to buy anything? It's a recycling center, not a pawn/thrift shop. How does Sonos not care about the environment unless they do something completely and utterly nonsense?

My understanding was that a lot of times, say you go to a PC recycling center, they will take working, reusable parts and build machines out of them to sell/donate to others. They only recycle raw materials as a last resort.

What you and a few others are saying is that a recycling center shouldn't be able to resell parts wholesale if they find a buyer or a good use that the original owner did not. Seems legit to me and perfectly within their rights and my expectations of what they do. I think there is an argument here about the definition of a recycling center.

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