Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success • Hacker News Board

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#241

Post by acdha » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 12:02 AM UTC

jotm wrote: post #127

whatshisface wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also get hours like that by working multiple low-level service or industrial jobs, or working a lot of overtime at a job that pays overtime. I have known people to do both, and the only thing that really limits it is the cost to your personal life and basic maintenance (relationships, health, home repair, that kind of stuff.) Men with a stay at home wife who is good at managing the home and keeping up relatio…

I've seen too many people happy about overtime... I dunno, I worked 12 hour days for weeks and it was hell. Doing something on the side, anything that makes some extra cash, seems better than straight up overtime.

You cut out all of the overhead: no new processes, policies, and personalities to learn; the work environment is already setup, as is billing; and there’s no chance of conflict of interest concerns.

There’s also no expectation of it continuing, which is good if you don’t want to have to deal with a side project running longer than expected. That’s bad if you’re looking for a true second job but I’ve known plenty of, say, young non-Christians who happily worked on Christmas at a healthy bonus.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

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Post by manigandham » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 12:05 AM UTC

Crusoe123 wrote: post #208

dangero wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the generally accepted and obvious view, but there seems to be a push from several popular personalities to virtue signal against it in the name of better working conditions. In the process they are accusing startup founders of abusing their workforce if they mention such an idea as working a little extra to get ahead.

As they very well should. If startup founders want to work extra - let them. But when they create a culture where they expect everyone to give the same extreme amount of sacrifice and work while they stand to gain only a fraction of what those who own the capital or have power in running the companies will gain - that is something that should be fought against as vigorously as possible on every level of society - cul…

Why? Other people who also want to work hard exist. If that particular startup or culture is not for you then you should leave, but don't tell everyone else what to do.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

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Post by Retric » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #239

Retric wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being at work for 100 hours is different from actually putting in 100 hours of work. I have worked with people that stayed 80 hours a week, but only really worked around 20 hours on average. If your putting around while a 4 hour script runs, you’re there but not actually working during that time.

That's now hot manual labor works. This is the bubble described by the parent comment. You'd be very surprised by how many continuous hours people work globally.

I have done construction work. There is a lot of standing around especially with manual labor positions. Even when there are hours of pure manual labor to do that’s relative. Nobody can work full out for 8hours so you either pace yourself or swap out and take breaks.

At the extreme edge you get long haul truckers who continuously work for as long as physically possible. But, on a second by second basis it’s not particularly demanding.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

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Post by pnutjam » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #113

natalyarostova wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it’s since been reviewed and maintained due to the continual finding that continuity of care is so important to health outcomes that it makes up for exhaustion.

I think the continuity of care thing is overblown. There will always be a handoff because no one can work 24/7. One way specialties such as Emergency Medicine and Critical Care (which manage the Intensive Care Units) manage this is with overlapping shifts, where for the last hour of one shift and the first hour of the next shift overlap. Emergency Medicine and Critical Care manage to do handoffs well, as well as nurs…

Handoffs need to be practiced to be done well. It's lazy to avoid them, but here we are.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

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Post by anon73044 » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:44 PM UTC

walterclifford wrote: post #195

anon73044 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd still say that John Rockefeller is more impressive. Adjusted for inflation John Rockefeller's company Standard Oil was worth over $1 trillion dollars. >Or Johan van Oldenbarnevelt, the guy who started the Dutch East India company Yeah, it's amazing what those guys could get away with back in the days of slavery and before regulation. /sarcasm

Standard Oil was founded in 1870, five years after the 13th amendment completely abolished slavery in the US. Rockefeller's success is attributed to his relentless pursuit of horizontal and vertical integration, not cheap labor via slavery.

Hence the >and before regulation.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

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Post by DreamScatter » Wed, Jan 01, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #51

dvt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... he is the most impressive CEO in this generation, perhaps in history How anyone can say this with a straight face blows my mind when even in the tech vertical he has some serious competition (are we forgetting about Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc.), let alone actual historical figures like Henry Ford, John Rockefeller, Cornelius Vanderbilt, etc.

It's too early to judge. If he accomplishes his goal of establishing permanent and self-sustaining human settlements on other worlds then he may end up being the most important person ever, not just CEO. His goals, at least, are ambitious in a way that those of the other people you mentioned aren't (except possibly Bezos, but Bezos doesn't laser focus on this stuff the same way Musk does).

There is no such thing as the most important person ever... all he did was fund some interesting ideas, which other people actually built. If we are going to single someone out for being the most important person ever, then that person would need to have some enormous achievement completed without the help of others.