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Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

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Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#241

Post by dwaite »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #211
snowwrestler wrote: post #150

> Only about 9% of Safari users on an iPhone allow outside companies to track where they go on the web > In comparison, 79% of people who use Google’s Chrome browser allow advertisers to track their browsing habits on mobile devices through cookies. Something to keep in mind the next time you see someone from Google complaining about how Apple won’t allow Google Chrome to run natively on the iPhone.

And when there is a security vulnerability which exploits webkit by just visiting a website, one has to wait till Apple releases an OS update(if it decides to acknowledge and fix it[1]), where as one on Firefox 'if Apple had allowed its own engine' could get updated via the AppStore. What Apple has done with the trackers is commendable, but the security argument when it comes to browsers is always in favour of allowi…

> if it decides to acknowledge and fix it

The reference does not back up your claim - Apple never disputed that there was an issue, and they had already fixed it when Project Zero published their report.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#242

Post by fuu_dev »

dxf wrote: post #190
surround wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple won’t let Firefox run either.

I'm not sure what you mean by "run"? I use Firefox as my browser on my iPhone.

Chrome, Firefox and similar on iOS are just skins on top of Safari. This is only true on iOS not on MacOS.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#243

Post by [deleted] »

panpanna wrote: post #231
snowwrestler wrote: post #150

> Only about 9% of Safari users on an iPhone allow outside companies to track where they go on the web > In comparison, 79% of people who use Google’s Chrome browser allow advertisers to track their browsing habits on mobile devices through cookies. Something to keep in mind the next time you see someone from Google complaining about how Apple won’t allow Google Chrome to run natively on the iPhone.

I hate tracking like everyone else but what you wrote is just pure FUD. Apple forces Firefox/chrome to use their crippled engine but that has nothing to do with the parts that do the tracking. For the record, Firefox has built-in anti tracker which is enabled by default and they do that on all platforms. And don't forgot the privacy enhancements Samsung added to their browser years ago.

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#244

Post by AsusFan »

panpanna wrote: post #231
snowwrestler wrote: post #150

> Only about 9% of Safari users on an iPhone allow outside companies to track where they go on the web > In comparison, 79% of people who use Google’s Chrome browser allow advertisers to track their browsing habits on mobile devices through cookies. Something to keep in mind the next time you see someone from Google complaining about how Apple won’t allow Google Chrome to run natively on the iPhone.

I hate tracking like everyone else but what you wrote is just pure FUD. Apple forces Firefox/chrome to use their crippled engine but that has nothing to do with the parts that do the tracking. For the record, Firefox has built-in anti tracker which is enabled by default and they do that on all platforms. And don't forgot the privacy enhancements Samsung added to their browser years ago.

> For the record, Firefox has built-in anti tracker which is enabled by default and they do that on all platforms

Firefox's anti-tracking protection doesn't block google analytics by default. They only block "third party" cookies - which in practice translates as: Google's competition.

The fox knows better than to bite the hand that feeds it.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#245

Post by jcfrei »

zwaps wrote: post #188
faizanbhat wrote: post #151

As someone who worked in ad tech for half a decade, I fail to understand the fuss about cookie based targeting. We're speaking of databases mapping data to random numbers stored in a file that can easily be deleted. The real issue is ad targeting by a handful of large companies that have personally identifiable information. It's not like cookie based targeting is very effective either. It's very difficult to get cook…

You probably would be well advised to read up on the economics of consumer differentiation and price discrimination. All of today's ad-tech is set up and developed for that purpose. Whether overtly or covertly, it is the singular purpose, because the case is so clear cut: We are distributing the share of the pie between companies and consumers. It is therefore clear why people aware of basic economics consider agress…

> [...] the combination of which allows market actors to determine how much of my consumer surplus they can extract in every sense

That would only be possible if the online stores could perfectly discriminate users based on price. Which happens to some extent (booking flights is a popular example) but is difficult to pull off and also illegal in most countries. You are not allowed to make personal discounts for each customer for example. Better and stricter legislation to prevent these kinds of personalized discounts would be pretty straightforward to implement if it were a major concern.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#246

Post by dorgo »

zwaps wrote: post #188
faizanbhat wrote: post #151

As someone who worked in ad tech for half a decade, I fail to understand the fuss about cookie based targeting. We're speaking of databases mapping data to random numbers stored in a file that can easily be deleted. The real issue is ad targeting by a handful of large companies that have personally identifiable information. It's not like cookie based targeting is very effective either. It's very difficult to get cook…

You probably would be well advised to read up on the economics of consumer differentiation and price discrimination. All of today's ad-tech is set up and developed for that purpose. Whether overtly or covertly, it is the singular purpose, because the case is so clear cut: We are distributing the share of the pie between companies and consumers. It is therefore clear why people aware of basic economics consider agress…

Why is price discrimination bad? It is about charging the highest price the customer is still ok with. Sure, if a merchant knows how badly you want his product he can increase the price. But, on the other hand, he will decrease the price for somebody who wouldn't pay the high price.

It's like bargaining on a fair. A method to determine a price suitable for both sides - instead of charging every customer the same price.

And it's not (only) about how much money the customer has. A rich customer can still be price sensitive and would get a low price based on price discrimination.

Also, in my opinion, ads and tracking are (mostly) orthogonal concepts. A website can track or show ads or both or do nothing. Tracking is often used for ads but not exclusively so.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#247

Post by krtkush »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28

> The cost of reaching Safari users has fallen over 60% in the past two years, according to data from ad tech firm Rubicon Project. Meanwhile ad prices on Google’s Chrome browser have risen slightly. This is a great metric for privacy.

Any idea where Firefox lies in the spectrum?

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#248

Post by dorgo »

jcfrei wrote: post #245
zwaps wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably would be well advised to read up on the economics of consumer differentiation and price discrimination. All of today's ad-tech is set up and developed for that purpose. Whether overtly or covertly, it is the singular purpose, because the case is so clear cut: We are distributing the share of the pie between companies and consumers. It is therefore clear why people aware of basic economics consider agress…

> [...] the combination of which allows market actors to determine how much of my consumer surplus they can extract in every sense That would only be possible if the online stores could perfectly discriminate users based on price. Which happens to some extent (booking flights is a popular example) but is difficult to pull off and also illegal in most countries. You are not allowed to make personal discounts for each…

> You are not allowed to make personal discounts for each customer for example

It is surprising. Couldn't find anything about it in a quick search. It would also make flea markets illegal, wouldn't it?

I think that some forms of price discrimination are forbidden (but still practiced). Women pay no entrace in clubs, young students pay less etc.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#249

Post by scarface74 »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #211
snowwrestler wrote: post #150

> Only about 9% of Safari users on an iPhone allow outside companies to track where they go on the web > In comparison, 79% of people who use Google’s Chrome browser allow advertisers to track their browsing habits on mobile devices through cookies. Something to keep in mind the next time you see someone from Google complaining about how Apple won’t allow Google Chrome to run natively on the iPhone.

And when there is a security vulnerability which exploits webkit by just visiting a website, one has to wait till Apple releases an OS update(if it decides to acknowledge and fix it[1]), where as one on Firefox 'if Apple had allowed its own engine' could get updated via the AppStore. What Apple has done with the trackers is commendable, but the security argument when it comes to browsers is always in favour of allowi…

What’s the practical difference between an OS update that can be one tiny patch and an app update? Not only does iOS 13 support all phones back to 2015. They released a patch for older devices going back to 2011 less than 6 months ago.

Re: Apple’s Ad-Targeting Crackdown Shakes Up Ad Market

#250

Post by BlueTemplar »

echelon wrote: post #65

I'd like to see a p2p mesh network where articles stripped of ads are upvoted, annotated, and shared. Something like outline, but truly distributed. The markup doesn't allow for embedded javascript or cookies. If it were to get popular, a microtransaction system could be built on top to pay the authors. In fact, payment could serve as one kind of ranking heuristic. Store articles in a blockchain and garbage collect t…

Is a "garbage collected blockchain" even possible? There are retroactively modifiable ones, like git, but each git repository is its own world, so the trust issues are quite different...
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