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Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

latimes.com

241–250 of 327 posts

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear to me how the correction of a cultural nature is being smug. The poster in question even admitted it was a "small nit", but it's still useful information for both the poster, and other readers.

This is a quote from the Office, which leads me to believe it's at least a little tongue in cheek.

ah ok, I misunderstood then.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#242
post #103

I find this post quite disappointing. I don't mean to come off harsh but it is quite naive and utopian and I cannot take the call to arms seriously. Saying the internet went wrong is like saying the invention of cars went wrong cause we still have car accidents. For every powerful force in the world, it will be a source of good and bad things. The internet has changed the world, increased communication, allowed peopl…

The Internet is not as bad as cars. That's harsh! Cars kill more than 1 million people a year, and are actively cooking our planet. On balance, cars -- at least our ability to use them -- has been a huge negative. The Internet is a lot more balanced, but both show how a lack of foresight and system design can lead to a lot of negative consequences. We could drastically cut down on the number of road deaths if we took…

> On balance, cars [...] has been a huge negative.

That's a ridiculous hyperbole. Cars have had a huge impact on mobility and availability of goods.

It's easy to just see the downsides since all those benefits can be taken for granted nowadays, especially when living in a city where cars are less important for personal use.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#243
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your theory of how the internet has "lifted so many people out of poverty". I'm not saying I disagree with it necessarily, I don't even understand what you're suggesting enough to disagree or agree with it. It's definitely not _obvious_ to me that the internet has somehow lifted so many people out of poverty, I just don't understand what you mean.

The number of people in extreme poverty globally have dropped roughly 650m since 1990. Some part of that is probably due to the internet though I'm not sure you could say how much exactly. (Our World in Data graph https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2019/04/Extreme-Poverty-p... )

https://ourworldindata.org/internet

Almost none of the desperately poor had internet between 1990-2000, yet poverty fell steeply.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#244
post #6

"You should be able to clearly articulate your preferred privacy policy and reject websites that don’t meet your standards." It occurs to me that this could be a rough description of ad blocking extensions, although rather like the Aldous Huxley quote about means determining ends, ad blockers are the result of an adversarial relationship rather than a consensual one.

As individuals, right? Since according to the author nation-states blocking websites that don't comply with their law is "balkanization" which is bad, but please also we need governments to be more involved in regulating the internet (but how to do that without balkanization or control?)

I don't disagree with some of what the author is attempting to propose, but it's not thought out at all well or clearly, which is a let-down.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#245
post #45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is a common topic between my girlfriend and me. Internet as we know it (we grew up in the 2000s with MSN, forums, etc) doesnt exist anymore. First (at least for us, for other people there would be another "first") were the basic webpages done in Frontpage or Dreamweaver (if you had enough RAM), uploaded to free webservers like Tripod, Lycos, Geocities, copying and pasting scripts found out there to remove p…

People still run blogs. People still run their own forums. Nothing is "lost", there is just a whole lot of new things that apparently don't interest you as much. Personally, I can't really say that I miss any of the sites designed like they were in the 90s, with their ever-rotating GIFs, Flash-based intro pages, "Designed for Netscape" badges. And does an influencer need to have his/her own website? Not more than an…

On a related sidenote, I wish a good bookmark sharing service existed. Del.li.cious used to be amazing and useful.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#246
post #103

I find this post quite disappointing. I don't mean to come off harsh but it is quite naive and utopian and I cannot take the call to arms seriously. Saying the internet went wrong is like saying the invention of cars went wrong cause we still have car accidents. For every powerful force in the world, it will be a source of good and bad things. The internet has changed the world, increased communication, allowed peopl…

The Internet is not as bad as cars. That's harsh! Cars kill more than 1 million people a year, and are actively cooking our planet. On balance, cars -- at least our ability to use them -- has been a huge negative. The Internet is a lot more balanced, but both show how a lack of foresight and system design can lead to a lot of negative consequences. We could drastically cut down on the number of road deaths if we took…

The Internet effect cannot be measured.

Those hoaxes, those political ideas, those agendas, arab springs. You can't measure the fallout of that.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#247

Personally, I think the internet has changed millions if not billions of lives for the better. Yes, it has introduced quite a few bad things like spam, malware, surveillance etc. but with most good things, comes a few bad things. Overall though, Internet has been tremendous in lifting so many people out of poverty AND creating jobs that otherwise people could not dream of before the internet. I can work for anyone ov…

I don't understand your theory of how the internet has "lifted so many people out of poverty". I'm not saying I disagree with it necessarily, I don't even understand what you're suggesting enough to disagree or agree with it. It's definitely not _obvious_ to me that the internet has somehow lifted so many people out of poverty, I just don't understand what you mean.

I agree. On a tech forum the bias is to consider the internet a panacea.

Look at the US. We went from ~0% internet penetration in 1990 to 75% in 2017. How much have real wages changed since then?

We fantasize about an impoverished person learning a new skill, but it's not the reality.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#248

The internet never "went wrong". Nor did it go right. If we want to talk about the internet going wrong, we can talk about running out of IPV4 addresses, the garbage that DNS/BGP can be. The insecureness of SMTP etc. Yet from a technical standpoint, it has gotten amazing. There was a time https/ssl was not a thing, when everyone shuffled data via FTP, when telnet ruled, when NFS was world rw and rlogin/rhost was the…

It should be noted that the author of the article did not mention "Fake News" or trolls, and at least half of his point w/r/t privacy was how to prevent and deal with data breaches.

I was rather relieved to read through this article and not hear anything about the 2016 election.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#249
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the obliteration of producers in favor of consumers More consumers begets more producers. I would assert you have better odds of producing in a wide variety of areas.

No, it does not. everyone is just following the most popular producers and the rest are basically irrelevant. Just look at the follower counts and how it drops off on any of the popular sites such as YouTube, twitch, patreon etc We got more consumers than ever, but they're all following the same people, centralizing it even more

That's not a problem with the Internet though, that's a problem with humanity!

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#250
post #103

I find this post quite disappointing. I don't mean to come off harsh but it is quite naive and utopian and I cannot take the call to arms seriously. Saying the internet went wrong is like saying the invention of cars went wrong cause we still have car accidents. For every powerful force in the world, it will be a source of good and bad things. The internet has changed the world, increased communication, allowed peopl…

I think he is afraid of the directionthe internet is taking. All the most important benefits we have gained from the internet will be undone if every nation and every isp censors and filters too much content. China is becoming a model for the rest of the world, and we are in danger of losing it all, or even worse; being manipulated into thinking we did not.

It's tough, the internet is so open that there are people out there that are having trouble separating hoaxes/fake news with the real news. The spread of these fake news are even way faster than the "old media".

You need to be a little bit tech literate in order to navigate the internet.

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