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Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

clearerthinking.org

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Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#241

Post by ra120271 »

Beltiras wrote: post #222
BasDirks wrote: post #213

I have my doubts about the honesty of these interpretations: > I feel angry because you forgot about our coffee date -> I want people to value the feelings of their friends Are you not angry because you want the person to value YOU and your time? What are these generic "people" and "the feeling of their friends" to you? > You make me feel guilty when you text me all the time -> I want there to be less pressure on my…

These feel ill formed NVC. If you lead with feeling the entire exchange becomes confrontational. First state unambiguous facts.

My communication style is regularly challenged by myself, on reflection, and others to explain why something is important instead of what is important. To help avoid misunderstandings around my intent about presenting a fact, I have found that explaining the reason why something matters to me or the situation and then followed by the supporting fact improves my interactions.

I personally have found it a useful lens to look at communication in this form of presentation model after watching this video.

https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_insp...

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#243

Post by pure-awesome »

laputan_machine wrote: post #237
Beltiras wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you didn't show up for our coffee date, I felt hurt. I need my time to be respected. Would you please show up on time or send me text letting me know you can't come?" More verbose for sure but clearer and more likely to de-escalate.

If someone spoke like that to me it would feel very forced and unnatural, I would assume it is fake

Perhaps one can see them as simplified examples of the type of message you're aiming for, and it's left as an exercise to the reader to phrase it naturally.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#244

Post by rimliu »

x220 wrote: post #95
Tomminn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the kinds of requests NVC codifies are ones where "you hurt my feelings via action X".

No, NVC would have you say "I feel X when I notice you doing Y." The way you phrased it implies blame.

How is NVC way any different? "I feel sad because you did X" is just sugarcoated "You are the one who made me feel sad by doing X".

I find the "uncover your feelings" the most questionable point of the whole framework. Instantly reminds me of Stephen Fry's

    — I am rather offended by that
    – So fucking what?
Long ago I made an observation that anger and other feelings are more of our perception of someone's actions than the actions themselves. From that time on "90% of everything is attitude" became one of the my favourite sayings. Also, I am not sure if NVC sits well with the fundamental attribution error.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#245

Post by rimliu »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #142
Tomminn wrote: post #16

I think non-violent communication is great when you actually have to ask someone to change something about the way they operate in the world. If you want to improve your relationships though, make rule zero "minimize the extent to which you require other people in the world to change."

>If you want to improve your relationships though, make rule zero "minimize the extent to which you require other people in the world to change." I actually think this is profoundly awful advice, that gets progressively worse the more intimate the relationship, as a fundamental function of human relationships is accountability.

Accountability and a requirement to change are quite orthogonal.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#246

Post by rimliu »

lxe wrote: post #147

> There is no hard data we know of that proves whether NVC actually improves relationships and resolves conflict Just like in “Crucial Conversations” this just tries to make empathy formulaic. Formulaic communication techniques come across as dishonest. A better advice is to be hyper aware of what the other party is trying to convey, whether they are using “violent” or nonviolent way of conveying it, and respond acco…

It's like trying to teach someone without any sense of rhythm, pitch, and tempo to play music. Yes, they can learn to do the mechanics, but the result will not be enjoyable.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#247

Post by rimliu »

nhumrich wrote: post #176
lxe wrote: post #147

> There is no hard data we know of that proves whether NVC actually improves relationships and resolves conflict Just like in “Crucial Conversations” this just tries to make empathy formulaic. Formulaic communication techniques come across as dishonest. A better advice is to be hyper aware of what the other party is trying to convey, whether they are using “violent” or nonviolent way of conveying it, and respond acco…

The formulas are to help us internalize the behavior. Having a crucial conversation is behavior change. We need to change ourselves. The formula helps us see the paths to change. Overtime, as you apply the formula, the underlying behavior sticks, and you forget the formula. So yes, while formulaic empathy feels dishonest, it will eventually lead to you being genuinely more empathetic.

Sometimes it is just cargo-culting.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#249

Post by blackhaz »

collyw wrote: post #248

I have the best relations with people that I can insult freely and they know not to take me too seriously.

I guess this is more about not being toxic with the family. I am such a person who can unintentionally create lots of tension with my son or wife, without suspecting anything. It just comes out of me. Friends - no problem, of course, people have more room for maneuvers there.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#250

Post by TeMPOraL »

avar wrote: post #214
TeMPOraL wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending at third step and leaving request unstated sounds highly manipulative to me, because the other party now has to figure out what you really want. Going straight to the request makes the tone do all the work - whether the exact request is even registered by the other party, or whether they feel forced to abandon their plans, all depends on how you voice your words. Perhaps people are different, but I'm of the ty…

> I'm of the type that I absolutely want to hear both what you want and reasoning why you want it. Skipping straight to the 4th step doesn't preclude us from discussing that, we can always backtrack and talk about that. It's just skipping straight to the point. Consider this: We've agreed to go to a specific restaurant tonight, you change your mind for whatever reason and feel strongly about it. You had a burger at l…

Nice example, thank you.

I think the important thing is still that a negotiation happened - an exchange of information about feelings and desires, and an attempt at reaching a satisfactory outcome.

I've only heard of NVC the first time today, but I've noticed I developed something similar for myself in my own conversation, out of desire to a) maximize accuracy of my communication, and b) minimize accidental miscommunication that leads to hurt feelings.

Regarding your example, I said that going straight for point 4 makes the tone do the work. "Hey, mind if we go to Subway instead?" with appropriate intonation leads to the outcome you desired. But I can imagine that person saying "Let's go to Subway instead", or "I want to go to Subway instead", and now this would communicate to me that there are more serious reasons behind it.

The way I'd say it in real life to proactively minimize misreading from the other side would be: "Could we go to Subway instead? At work today, the customer wanted to go for a burger for lunch, so I already had one and don't feel like having another.".

I find that what NVC identified as the four steps gets more and more important the closer you are to someone, and the more emotional the topic is. Clearly separating facts from emotions and not saying someone caused your feelings are wonderful de-escalating tools.

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