I know I'm repeating myself, but this should've been a static page - instead if you want to see anything you must enable 3 scripts and 2 XHR. Why, just why?
Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
241–250 of 345 posts
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#242Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…
Personally, I'd rather avoid both SV and CH and just live in Texas. $1/sq. ft. ($10.76/m²) is still the norm in Dallas, and it's not too hard to find cheaper. You would pay less money for a decent-size house in the suburbs of Dallas than the cheapest 1-bedroom apartment in SV or Zurich.
I don't think I could stand Texas. I don't like heat and I hate having to deal with commuting.
Also I abhor the politics of the state and region, in general.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…
I know a Swiss expat living in America who moved here for that exact reason. His wife is Cuban, and they said they felt more at home and accepted in the US after a few months than they did after 10 years of living in Switzerland. They both loved Switzerland, but they cited the insular culture as the primary reason for leaving. His wife just couldn't handle it anymore.
> the insular culture
Anecdotally, this is the reason most people struggle as expats in CH.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, a lot of the "pros" of living in Switzerland are basically the same as in the US. In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, Des Moines, whatever) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k and buy houses for $250k - $350k. If you're single, you can get luxury 1 BD apartments for $1500 in happening parts of town. Plus, in the enterprise world it's very easy t…
Sorry, but Austin is not low COL. you’re way off the mark with those numbers for anything near Austin central and it’s going up exceedingly fast.
You are correct -- I haven't checked on Austin in quite a while.
However, my point is you don't have to choose between an expensive, top US tech hub and leaving the states entirely if you want a more chill, laid back, and less expensive lifestyle.
There are like 50 other cities in the US that offer all the amenities of a big city, with chill jobs and without the sky-high COL.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#245After reading this article, here is my advice to a developer in the Bay Area 1. Definitely don't move to Switzerland. Your cost of living will be very similar, you will have to work more than 40 hours a week, and your salary will go down. 2. Move literally anywhere else in the USA. I live in Boulder, Colorado and its awesome. Mountains and trails out my door with a great city scene as well. People snob at Boulder bec…
>One thing I have found about working remotely is that its pretty easy to work 35 hours a week and produce the same output as a full time, in office employee. Less distractions and in-office chitchat, and more working time. In practice this means that you can wake up at 7:30, make a coffee, be online at 8am, and then be free by 3pm
This is highly individual. My company lets me work remote whenever and as much as I want. I still spend the vast majority of my time in the office because I'm far less productive when working from home.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#246Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…
I can chime in here, as I am very familiar with Zurich. While there are no extreme high compensations like for the top echelon SD in the SV top companies, the median, truly achievable wage is easy in excess of 120k annually. The housing prices are much lower than around SV, and most importantly, you do not have to live in the city, the public transport system network is very efficient, it is not essential to own a ca…
It seems like based on what you said that Switzerland may offer wages that are closer to US pay scales while still offering "European" benefits like PTO/healthcare/safety net?
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should wages go up to match outrageous expenses? People are being squeezed, but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour. I hear this all the time in Vancouver - people blaming this squeeze on stagnant wages - as if the labour market could ever pay people enough to keep pace with supply-constrained, monopolistic markets. The rent is too damn high. And we know why, but ... somehow we just want…
> but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour. It is not. The value fire-fighters, teachers or nurses provide is much higher than, say, an enterprise developer, yet in most places the other earns more.
Some of those people do make a pretty good salary in California though. For example in Oakland, the Fire Department Captain makes $472k/year. https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2018/oakland/
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…
That's what obviously the article doesn't mention. Money is not all, and I know plenty of white people too who could not handle the "arrogant Swiss people", that they had to leave the country. You can't generalize, I agree, however when you hear more times the same complains from completely different people, you start to wonder if there is not a bit of truth in it, though. I didn't want to add negativity to the post,…
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm in Vienna and its pretty normal here to rent for 40-50% of your salary. otherwise you'd move to the far outskirts of the city.
I often hear about how Vienna is a public housing paradise. (ie, https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vienna-affordable-housing-par... , https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr_edge_featd_articl... ) Is it the market-rate units that cost 40-50% of your salary?
Here in Germany it's also like 50-60+% of income for housing (1 room apartment) if u start out as dev
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#250I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…
1. How easy/difficult to get Switzerland citizenship if you live and work there? 2. How popular is English language is in Switzerland IT companies?
> 1. How easy/difficult to get Switzerland citizenship if you live and work there?
I know someone who was born there, raised there, currently lives there (after a while in North America) and does not having citizenship or want to go through the hassle.
From what she says it's a massive pain in the ass.