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System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

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Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not able to update my post, so I'll leave my edit here: EDIT: If I wanted an ALMOST foss laptop, I would buy a laptop and coreboot it myself. The reason that it's exciting for a company to be doing something like this is because they have leverage in their decisions that I don't as a customer (custom cpu, custom components, choosing components with open firmware that already have good interoperability on the plat…

You might be ascribing quite a bit more leverage to System76 than they actually have here. No one is going to get Intel or AMD to allow open PSP/ME firmware -- AIUI even Google, with the truckloads of chips they buy, isn't able to influence that decision at either x86 vendor. Plus, System76 isn't the ODM -- that's Clevo from what I understand, so their influence on the two x86 CPU vendor(s) will be so far removed as…

> You might be ascribing quite a bit more leverage to System76...

This may be true, but I think that selling corebooted computers is literally just a marketing gimmick. If a computer ('s motherboard) is corebootable, I can coreboot it myself, or lacking the technical skills, ebay have it done for ~$50 (maybe with video proof that the flashed rom is what is expected by showing hashes)

I don't expect ANYONE to be able to make intel or amd do anything about this situation, which is why I acknowledge your point:

> Now, offering something else (ARM, RISC-V, POWER, anything but x86) as a truly open source alternative...

I would love to see a POWER laptop, but I don't have the technical knowledge or money to help make this happen.

What I think is holding this back the most is that there are very few people with an ecosystem where they can compile all their own programs, meaning that 99% of computer users won't be able to make use of the general purpose computer underneath, because the software they NEED for their work absolutely will not run on it.

As a user however I think freedom is paramount, I'm about to finish up my CS undergrad, and about 3 years ago I became aware of the issues surrounding freedom in computing (literally never brought up in any of my classes), and I bought all the components needed and librebooted myself a thinkpad x200, which I've been faithfully using with parabola/debian ever since. Thankfully this as a platform was within my financial reach.

> With our baseline blob-free systems...

I laud the efforts of raptorpcs, but these systems are completely out of my reach. My previous sentence should show that I'm willing to compromise a lot to have freedom (no usb 3.0, I stopped playing games that have proprietary code, rebuilt my ecosystem so as to never have to move away from totally libre software etc)

I recognize how the fact that these machines exist means that a motivated company can choose to have a free system and that's great!

What I'm looking for as a normal user though is a LAPTOP that has these features, and that's why I get hype when someone claims to have one, but it's always a dissapointment, eg. purism.

I feel like I'm ranting, but it's honestly a little unclear what I'm responding to.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#242
post #123
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1080p is 16:9. I presume you meant 16:10 (which is also my preference)

I don't understand why we need another competing standard for such a small difference. Given how small the difference is, I'm in favor for whichever one is more common to avoid black bars below media or other ill-fitting content. As far as I can tell, 16:9 is much more common so I am happy to stick with that on any device and resolution.

Because I want my computer to be optimised for productivity, not watching YouTube.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#244
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Ryzen are you specifically referring to? Afaik newer generations have Intel beat on performance/watt, particularly in HT heavy applications and at least on desktop.

Being able to put out more FLOPs at max pinned wattage, doesn’t imply that you’ll take in fewer watts at idle. Power consumption isn’t linear.

I'm not talking about "more FLOPs at max pinned wattage", that would be Intel. I'm talking about efficiency as in performance delivered per watt used and on that metric Ryzen has Intel beat on desktop.

So it stands to reason those new Ryzen chips would also perform very well in laptops.

[0] https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9_3900x-vs-in...

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#245
post #154
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, something seems fishy. My E485 (one 3-cell battery) gets 3-4 hours on Arch

You poor bastard. I’m running arch on an X1 6th and getting 8 hours+

I mean, they're very different laptops and anyway, if this is a competition, I get ~10-11 hours with a 9 cell in my x220 on arch.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not able to update my post, so I'll leave my edit here: EDIT: If I wanted an ALMOST foss laptop, I would buy a laptop and coreboot it myself. The reason that it's exciting for a company to be doing something like this is because they have leverage in their decisions that I don't as a customer (custom cpu, custom components, choosing components with open firmware that already have good interoperability on the plat…

You might be ascribing quite a bit more leverage to System76 than they actually have here. No one is going to get Intel or AMD to allow open PSP/ME firmware -- AIUI even Google, with the truckloads of chips they buy, isn't able to influence that decision at either x86 vendor. Plus, System76 isn't the ODM -- that's Clevo from what I understand, so their influence on the two x86 CPU vendor(s) will be so far removed as…

> No one is going to get Intel or AMD to allow open PSP/ME firmware -- AIUI even Google, with the truckloads of chips they buy

I can't understand why so few in the tech industry are troubled by this.

With two competing suppliers and Google's immense purchasing volumes it is completely bizzare that neither AMD nor Intel has offered Google PSP/ME-free processors.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why do you consider System76 to be building new roads by using locked hardware and offering partial open source firmware for it? Wouldn't the new roads kudos be more appropriately given to all of the folks that made real open hardware happen (RISC-V, OpenPOWER, etc.) years before this partly-open-source system announcement went out? In my mind the RISC-V folks especially were real trailblazers in thi…

To the downvoters: I'm guessing you wanted to run Windows 10 "safely" somehow, or sandbox your games. There's almost no other reason to be this stuck on x86; at the end of the day it's just a consumer architecture that some well known privacy disrespecting software requires to run. It's not even that great of an architecture from a technical perspective, it just happens to have the financial weight of the prosumer ma…

I'm a fan of what Raptor is trying to achieve but you perhaps need to go easy on the company Kool Aid. Hijacking another manufacturer's comment thread to push your own agenda is one thing, ranting and being disrespectful is quite another.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#249
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand why you would even care about the firmware if you're running Windows. To me, that would be like building a fortified, ultra-secure rear doorway into a run down barn with a gaping hole where the front doors used to be. If these efforts were even potentially likely to result in open x86 systems someday, I wouldn't be as opposed to them as I am now. But when you have both x86 silicon vendors on…

For the same reason I cared to run linux even before we had open BIOS. Would you have been shouting at young Torvalds that he was wasting his time trying to write a free OS in a world of proprietary hardware? We won't get to a fully open ecosystem in a day. It wont be a single project, and the more experimental parts you add to the platform, the higher the cost you pay in instability, complexity of maintenance, and p…

>Would you have been shouting at young Torvalds that he was wasting his time trying to write a free OS in a world of proprietary hardware?

Yeah. It wouldn't have stopped him, probably just made him want an open platform even more.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#250
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD GPUs require AtomBIOS which contains bytecode (that is: blobs) to initialize the GPU. If you look at the Linux drivers, they come with an AtomBIOS bytecode interpreter for that purpose. There was some confrontation over that 10 years ago or so (see radeon vs. radeonhd drivers, one point of view is described at https://libv.livejournal.com/27799.html ) and the people in charge of Linux GPU drivers decided to go wi…

ACPI also works this way, no?

Right, but ACPI has a standard (even if using the standard has onerous restrictions) and so firmware projects like coreboot can (and do) implement their own.

For AtomBIOS, you have a single vendor virtual machine environment (bytecode + semantics) describing whatever they need in a custom form. There's no other documentation for the things out there than AtomBIOS speciment, making reimplementation rather complex.

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