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The China Cultural Clash

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Re: The China Cultural Clash

#241

Post by plandis »

throwawy4trueth wrote: post #235
baby wrote: post #78

I have an interesting take on this, from knowing a bit about Chinese culture (lived there) and for having friends and coworkers who are Chinese. Culture in China is about unity. If you look at Chinese history, and if you watch Chinese movies, this is a recurrent theme. Unification through blood and war. This is the goal and China will get stronger and more stable over time. At what cost? Tiananmen, xinjiang, hk, the…

The solution is quite simple: mind your own business. Let time and history to tell. China never send army or CIA to overthrow other countries. If the other side don't want to do the business that's fine. Westerner like to spread their values, often with force.

“Mind your own business” the Chinese say while simultaneously getting upset when an individual in their individual capacity says something on an American website banned in China. Is irony not a thing in China?

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#242

Post by Qub3d »

curiousgal wrote: post #38

Adobe recently blocked all Venzuelans because of an executive order. Foreign companies are sanctionned by the US for dealing with Iranian entities even if their countries have no issue with Iran. (Huawei's executive was even arrested in Canada on behalf of the US for that). My point is, why should we hold companies accountable for enforcing a certain national policy when A, companies have always done awful things in…

Okay, two things:

First, to your question. Ostensibly the executive order is due to an illegitimate leader refusing to cede power and causing a humanitarian crisis. This is not dissimilar to how countries sanction North Korea. I would absolutely have preferred such actions to be passed in a democratic manner, and in fact the whole executive order mechanism needs serious rethinking, but the underlying concept is different.

Second, your B) question is a tu quoque fallacy, as you're appealing to hypocrisy. Just because the U.S. does it doesn't mean we should accept it from China. We also should be (and many are) angry at the US' actions.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#243

Post by 4gotunameagain »

> There’s one rather glaring hole in this story of immediate outrage from Chinese fans over Morey’s tweet:

> Twitter is banned in China.

I didn't even realize until now. They are simply censoring (mainly)American social media posts. On the internet.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#244

Post by adventured »

ferest wrote: post #198
mlyle wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, the action was fast in a way that speaks of external coordination. If someone in the US makes politically questionable speech, the fallout is stretched over days, and generally products aren't pulled immediately from retailers, etc. Here, we had many commercial actors respond at once (Alibaba, Tencent, Li Ning, China Basketball Association, etc.). It reeks of state coordination and pressure, especially when Chi…

try non-PC speeches in US, race, LGBT or gun related speeches you'll see

We have a lot of examples of that occurring in the past decade. There's no need to speculate (the "you'll see" part). The op's statement was obviously correct about speed of action. In the US protests about something tend to build and stretch out over many days or weeks more typically. See the prominent example of the famous Chick-fil-A protest (which went on for months). It took Walmart a month to take measures recently regarding guns (open carry in their stores) in reaction to the shooting that occurred in El Paso and it also wasn't government forced.

If it were Beijing, you'd have comprehensive action occur within a day or two and it would be a strict policy enforced by the government. All Chick-fil-A locations would be shut down immediately and whatever was upsetting would be removed (or the chain would never reopen); and while the authorities are at it, they might go ahead and engineer a forced ownership transfer for good measure.

I'll note that Chick-fil-A is booming in the US. It's now the third most successful chain in the US by sales behind McDonalds and Starbucks. That's despite their non-PC position on gay rights.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#247

Post by LocalH »

whateveracct wrote: post #225
LocalH wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. So much this. Deplatforming is deplatforming. If one supported the deplatforming of Alex Jones, and doesn't also support China on this, then they are a hypocrite engaging in severe cognitive dissonance. Freedom of speech is not some "loophole" that allows people to say nasty things. It's a bulwark against authoritarianism. The ones who forget that need to study world history when it comes to freedom of speech a…

Why are you equating private entities deplatformimg vs government-controlled ones? They are fundamentally different things.

There is no effective difference between private and public deplatforming. Freedom of expression is harmed by both.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#248

Post by Qub3d »

throwawy4trueth wrote: post #235
baby wrote: post #78

I have an interesting take on this, from knowing a bit about Chinese culture (lived there) and for having friends and coworkers who are Chinese. Culture in China is about unity. If you look at Chinese history, and if you watch Chinese movies, this is a recurrent theme. Unification through blood and war. This is the goal and China will get stronger and more stable over time. At what cost? Tiananmen, xinjiang, hk, the…

The solution is quite simple: mind your own business. Let time and history to tell. China never send army or CIA to overthrow other countries. If the other side don't want to do the business that's fine. Westerner like to spread their values, often with force.

Given the name, age, and almost hilariously stereotypical grammatical errors, I can only assume you are at best a troll and at worst some sort of astroturfer or Chinese national.

China has absolutely used state power to affect foreign states. Consider all the infrastructure projects funded by Chinese money in Africa[0] and consider what the ultimate motive is.

[0]:https://qz.com/africa/1326618/china-is-building-expensive-ro...

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#249

Post by plandis »

knzhou wrote: post #81
juanjmanfredi wrote: post #20

I'm curious as to what happens if the NBA does in fact get banned from China. I've always wondered whether, as the Chinese economy grows and living standards rise, individuals would ever feel more entitled to individual rights. Of course maybe this is just a western bias. If the NBA was blocked, would passionate Chinese NBA fans (of which there are many) fall in line? Or not?

I'm always bemused to have to say this, but: nobody likes censorship because they enjoy "falling in line". People everywhere support censorship exactly to the degree that they agree with the censors. You probably didn't shed a tear when Alex Jones was deplatformed, because he's a scoundrel, and if this really did escalate to a full block of the NBA (which seems unlikely), by that point many Chinese citizens would pro…

The difference is that the US government didn’t dictate that Jones be removed.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#250

Post by ben_jones »

reilly3000 wrote: post #204
ben_jones wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An enemy (eastern imperialism) of your enemy (western imperialism) is your friend. China was a victim in the Opium wars and then again to Japan in the 1930s and 1940s. This is all important context that needs to be considered. To be clear I don't support China or Eastern imperialism in (significantly) Africa, the ME, or the US. But if you want to fight it you have to be informed, history repeats itself.

Also to be clear I don't support China's activities or posture around the world. I think they are building an empire, and its execution and culture are antithetical to western values. I'm just saying that the West cannot claim a moral high ground in how we've treated China, and in the US, Chinese immigrants.

Oh I absolutely agree, there is also a rich irony in the United States condemning financial imperialism when we literally wrote the entire playbook for it in the 20th century.
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