Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole "article" is propaganda by a neocon think tank. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute
And this contradicts their data... how, exactly?
But why male models?
The myth of the teacher pay gap?
241–250 of 308 posts
Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?
#242> (2) Annual wages have been calculated by multiplying the hourly mean wage by a "year-round, full-time" hours figure of 2,080 hours; for those occupations where there is not an hourly wage published, the annual wage has been directly calculated from the reported survey data. See, this is where things go wrong. So they've got mean wage figures which are constructed both on a fact (hourly wage) and an assumption (work…
> my girlfriend is a teacher and I see her working about 40 hours a week, for a 24h job...
The thing is, many people in 40-hour-week jobs are doing upwards of 60 hours per week. I'd offer that the better paid the job and the more responsibility the job has, the more hours per week are required. Nearly everybody is doing their equivalent of grading papers and doing lesson plans.
Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm somewhat baffled as to why "work to rule" is considered a sort of strike or protest. If two parties have already agreed that one will perform a certain amount of work and another will pay a certain amount of money, it is unreasonable for either side to demand more than what the other side agreed to. A contract becomes meaningless if one side can arbitrarily adjust the terms.
It represents the dichotomy between contracted work and what it actually take to do the job.
Remove 'contracted' and it applies to any work, or any day job in general.
Including software. It is also one of those reasons why the 40 hour work week is mostly a myth.
Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?
#244This seems to use private education as a benchmark for the entire argument. From quit rates, to pay, to conditions, and beyond, but ignores the obvious which is that private pay and private conditions are largely pinned to be just above public salaries and conditions (meaning private education cannot be used as a benchmark for when someone is under-paid, over-qualified, or has too high of a quit rate because they are…
>how society decides salaries. It seems pretty arbitrary from my perspective. Society doesn't "decide". It's a decided by the labor market. Nobody wants to pay programmers six figures. It's a myth that we think teachers are less important than programmers because they make less on average. There is just a larger supply of qualified teachers willing to work at lower prices. Wait until you find out how little art histo…
>>There is just a larger supply of qualified teachers willing to work at lower prices.
Add to this, demand for teachers is directly tied to population growth rates. If more teachers are being produced compared to growth of class rooms the pay falls further.
Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
>how society decides salaries. It seems pretty arbitrary from my perspective. Society doesn't "decide". It's a decided by the labor market. Nobody wants to pay programmers six figures. It's a myth that we think teachers are less important than programmers because they make less on average. There is just a larger supply of qualified teachers willing to work at lower prices. Wait until you find out how little art histo…
The word "qualified" is pulling a lot of weight in your argument. You can absolutely hire a programmer for $70k if you're willing to significantly relax your standards. On the other hand, you probably wouldn't be able to hire enough teachers at existing teacher salaries if you significantly raised your standards for what counts as "qualified". Tech companies have to use a relatively high bar, because bad developers w…
>>Tech companies have to use a relatively high bar, because bad developers will drive them out of business
Most work in Tech companies even the top FAANG ones these days is crud work.
These people can only afford to pay well, because they make their money through advertising scale. Companies which depend on paying users, can't afford to pay that kind of salaries, nor waste their time interviewing people on rounds and rounds for proxy skills which have nothing to do with the job on hand.
In short only VC companies without profit pressure or web advertising companies pay well. Others don't have this luxury.
Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
I used to work in fast food. I would gladly get paid less per hour for my current software development job than I was back then (as long as it was above making rent). It was a much more draining job and it's effects consumed every waking minute during work days and spending off-days just recovering. That kind of job should have risk bonuses. Significant ones. Most people just can't do that and pursue anything else. G…
Its relative, I have plenty of friend who work in restaurant, they wouldn't want to trade with my software job. True that software development job is physically lot less demanding but for them its mentally exhausting.
It's not really relative. It's very varying depending on your tasks, location and environment and kind of restaurant.
We were at a very stressful location and working at another location could be a huge relief because of lower load. I would imagine the work environment would have to go to absolute trash for the dev job to come close.
If you say restaurant, it feel like it's not fast food, and the average differences in wages, hours, stress level and customer appreciation between establishments called restaurants vs fast food places is probably quite significant.
Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?
#247> (2) Annual wages have been calculated by multiplying the hourly mean wage by a "year-round, full-time" hours figure of 2,080 hours; for those occupations where there is not an hourly wage published, the annual wage has been directly calculated from the reported survey data. See, this is where things go wrong. So they've got mean wage figures which are constructed both on a fact (hourly wage) and an assumption (work…
> I know n=1 but, my girlfriend is a teacher and I see her working about 40 hours a week, for a 24h job. She has a 0.6 FTE contracted position (and an according 60% monthly salary), she's at the school about 4 days a week. On her off-day, every single evening before work and after work, and at least one, sometimes two days of the weekend, she's grading papers, designing exams, preparing lessons, calling up parents, responding to students on their education platform (some saas application on laptop & phone) etc etc.
Why does she accept this? You get a salary, you have hours to do shit then go home and forget about work. You need to prepare things? Do it at school during work hours. Stop gifting unpaid time to a corporation which does not care.
Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s actual data on both points you make. These anecdotes and conjectures are not very valuable. There are high quit rates in other industries that would have the same loss of potentially awesome staff as well. Why do teachers quit so infrequently compared to other professions? Maybe it’s because it is a low risk job with really unusual benefits (2 months fixed leave every summer). Lots of people work for jobs tha…
There is no data on how many people don't choose to teach because of the perception of low wage and poor working conditions. I'm not even sure how you would measure that. I also can't think of another profession that has the same reputation. Most jobs have a reputation of either poor working conditions or low pay, or if they have both, are unskilled or low skilled positions. Teaching is the only job I can think of wi…
> I also can't think of another profession that has the same reputation
Game development? Much lower pay relative to other programming jobs, insane hours, and usually requires much deeper and specialized skills.
I guess it's not low pay on an absolute scale like teaching is.
Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?
#249> (2) Annual wages have been calculated by multiplying the hourly mean wage by a "year-round, full-time" hours figure of 2,080 hours; for those occupations where there is not an hourly wage published, the annual wage has been directly calculated from the reported survey data. See, this is where things go wrong. So they've got mean wage figures which are constructed both on a fact (hourly wage) and an assumption (work…
> I know n=1 but, my girlfriend is a teacher and I see her working about 40 hours a week, for a 24h job. She has a 0.6 FTE contracted position (and an according 60% monthly salary), she's at the school about 4 days a week. On her off-day, every single evening before work and after work, and at least one, sometimes two days of the weekend, she's grading papers, designing exams, preparing lessons, calling up parents, r…
A few reasons. One, it's not a corporation, virtually every single school in the country is a public school. She's essentially a gov employee. Teachers have been striking and protesting against low wages for years, gov doesn't budge.
If you studied to become a teacher for half a decade, love your job, see the impact on kids who need you, and essentially work at a non-profit, there's very little recourse but leave teaching behind entirely and do something else in the private sector.
You can cut corners and stick to contracted hours but your classes will suck, your kids will know you don't care and won't care either. Both your job becomes boring, soulless, without impact or connection as the relationship with your students goes down the drain. You'll burn out for different reasons.
I'm exaggerating some points slightly but that's the gist of it.
Netherlands btw.
Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?
#250> (2) Annual wages have been calculated by multiplying the hourly mean wage by a "year-round, full-time" hours figure of 2,080 hours; for those occupations where there is not an hourly wage published, the annual wage has been directly calculated from the reported survey data. See, this is where things go wrong. So they've got mean wage figures which are constructed both on a fact (hourly wage) and an assumption (work…
> I know n=1 but, my girlfriend is a teacher and I see her working about 40 hours a week, for a 24h job. She has a 0.6 FTE contracted position (and an according 60% monthly salary), she's at the school about 4 days a week. On her off-day, every single evening before work and after work, and at least one, sometimes two days of the weekend, she's grading papers, designing exams, preparing lessons, calling up parents, r…
Maybe because the gift is to the students, not a "corporation". They're the ones being harmed if their teacher cuts hours worked.
Is that fair? No, but it's the moral calculus regardless. And it's at least one reason why teachers are, indeed, "underpaid".