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Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

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Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#241

Post by excalibur »

Fezzik wrote: post #168
nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

I always find this sentiment a little silly - if the US President went in to full dictator mode and had the support of the military, do you really think a militia of armed citizens would be anything but gnats against the windshield of the United States Armed Forces? And if s/he did not have the support of the Armed Forces, it would not be a very effective dictatorship and you would not even need guns for a rebellion.…

And of course look what happens when your citizen militias actually SUPPORT the dictator. His opposition is swiftly crushed, it's not even a contest. Democracy falls almost overnight.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#242

Post by HBKXNCUO »

geggam wrote: post #218
HBKXNCUO wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other politicians who haven't lost their families yet might.

Might scorch the earth because their families could be next too. Ultimatum style anything always creates unpredictability

War is always a gamble.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#243

Post by UIZealot »

RavlaAlvar wrote: post #131
UIZealot wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CCP control is being implemented which is what the protesters are against. Really ? How exactly is it being implemented? EDIT: Down-voters, can you answer the question? Or are you just going to try to bury it with down-votes?

If you live in Hong Kong, you can definitely feel that over the years, CCP have been increasingly ramp up their influence on HK matters. CCP officials start to comment on internal HK matters, lobbying for government policy to pass in the legislative branch.

Influence? Certainly.

Just like the UK could influence HK matters when it was a British colony, China can influence HK matters now that it's a Chinese special administrative region.

Control? Not so much.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#244

Post by tmux314 »

radmarshallb wrote: post #108
tmux314 wrote: post #42

This is not the first time the HKPF has used overt force on a protester, just the first time it has done so publicly. Several protesters have already been "disappeared", and there are many stories coming out of brutal torture against activists. If Beijing authorities have learned one thing from Tiananmen Square, it's that in the internet age violent suppression must happen in private places, where it cannot be record…

As of this writing the protester in question was injured, not killed.

Fixed. Thanks.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#245

Post by NeedMoreTea »

exabrial wrote: post #142
mc32 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s uncertain what the eventual outcome would be, but one thing is for sure, it would increase the threshold before the tanks rolled in.

I don't think the Hong Kong government would allow the PLA to invade.

No need, they've been invited.

"China has now assembled its largest-ever active force of People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops and other anti-riot personnel and equipment in Hong Kong."

"the reinforcement includes elements of the People’s Armed Police (PAP), a mainland paramilitary anti-riot and internal security force under a separate command from the PLA"

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china-army-hongkong-milita...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#246

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

empath75 wrote: post #74
mc32 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s uncertain what the eventual outcome would be, but one thing is for sure, it would increase the threshold before the tanks rolled in.

If they were armed this would have been over a long time ago. China would have gone in with tanks and the army, or even air strikes. Once you take up arms against the government that’s not a protest, that’s a civil war.

> China would have gone in with tanks and the army, or even air strikes

Thereby ruining the very thing they want to control and profit from.

That's the thing that the "They'll just send in the army, LOL" folks don't seem to get: bombed out cities and a population under armed guard aren't very economically productive and, on top of that, you need to station military units there to keep a lid on things which is also costly.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#247

Post by mytailorisrich »

unethical_ban wrote: post #192
baybal2 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? But another question is, what people in Beijing supposed to do? Think of that. To many, it's very clear that men in black will not be content even if given suffrage. Then they will want places in legislature, own foreign policy, armed forces, and ultimately sovereignty. The popular sentiment that it's "poor HK kids" coming out at large out of desperat…

The very notion that people want free government and self-determination is a bad thing is why you're being downvoted on an American forum. There is not a lot of support for oppressive governments that commit genocide against religious minorities and put people in prison for political dissidence. You may be playing devil's advocate for the "party" but it comes too close to sounding like you're defending them.

The irony is of course to downvote to hell any dissenting comment in a debate about democratic values and censorship in China...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#248

Post by kaolti »

emptysongglass wrote: post #158
nvahalik wrote: post #18

> Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator This is why we have the second amendment. And the constitution as the thing to which office-holders swear allegiance to rather than to "the party" or "the president".

This is absurd. Any chance a rebellious citizenry had armed to the teeth evaporated with standing armies. Gun owners of the US cling to this ideal even while experiencing the worst spate of mass shootings in its history. There is no solution to this other than disarming.

Is it really absurd? What is absurd about you having the right to protect yourself? You seem to be saying "I can't protect myself anyway, so let's not allow anyone else to try either."

Disarming is a solution. If everyone would come together as one and hand their weapons in because THEY wanted to.

Do you really think forcibly trying to take guns from people is a solution? Damn, talk about absurd.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#249

Post by swebs »

wffurr wrote: post #98
swebs wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problems are unrelated to gun ownership. If you were to plot the percent of gun ownership vs the crime rate among various states or even countries, you wouldn't find much of a correlation.

It's actually quite clear that there is a strong correlation between gun ownership and gun violence: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-an... Overall crime, no, there is no correlation, but there is for guns used in crimes, which dramatically increases the rate of deaths and severity of those crimes.

Gun "violence" includes suicides. There is actually a negative correlation between gun ownership and homicides.

https://medium.com/@tgof137/gun-ownership-rates-do-not-predi...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#250

Post by wbronitsky »

Clubber wrote: post #232
emptysongglass wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurd. Any chance a rebellious citizenry had armed to the teeth evaporated with standing armies. Gun owners of the US cling to this ideal even while experiencing the worst spate of mass shootings in its history. There is no solution to this other than disarming.

[flagged]

Wow, what a needless, toxic comment that attacks a person when it could easily attack an idea. It is amazing to me how prolific these types of arguments have become on this platform. I don’t understand why we continue to push arguments that equate to “you disagree with me and therefore are an idiot who cannot see what is right in front of them”
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