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Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

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Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#241
I'm quite hesitant to tell this story and unfortunately, because I'm ashamed of myself, and for privacy reasons I had to create a new account for this but I wanted to tell the story of the day my mother fell in love with me.

Long story short, many years ago I was working for a provider that was building algorithms for various dating websites.

The goal was simple: Increase signups.

A Little Bit of Background --------------------------

As a small group of rather "creative" engineers in their early twenties encouraged by large sums of money we came up with the idea of building "Matching Personas" which would be able to have a basic conversation, as well as have similar interests in the target subject.

Keep in mind that some of those dating sites have various "upgrade" (read payment) paths. Some had a "3 private messages" limit so that you can start chatting with someone but to continue the conversation, you needed to upgrade to premium.

The typical path for a user was: 1. Visit the website and search for what they're interested in 2. See a few profiles and decide whether online dating was their thing 3. Invest personal time creating a profile and putting down their interests, photos, etc.

Point #3 is where the magic came in.

I had been working on automating the creation of accounts, and more importantly the creation of what we used to call smart-accounts. After a few months we had increased the conversion rate by about 30% on average (Which is MASSIVE) and our internal funding was getting larger and larger. Our smart accounts ended up being able to recognize certain items in photos, understand the interests of new users, have "similar" interests that are either the same or tangentially related, similar number of kids, etc. etc.

Based on real matches we built an engine that learnt what people look for when they convert. How the conversations go, the type of language used when discussing, the similarities in interests and family, etc. Honestly a really wide set of super interesting machine learning problems from object recognition to natural language processing to recommender systems to LTSM, etc.

It was pretty simple. A user signs up and they put some of their information in. Our engine picks up the latest user's information, creates about 10 different "smart profiles" that the new user is likely to match, and then in the search results display those smart-accounts to the new user who just joined. The new user would see smart accounts, and start chatting with them on their free accounts. Because we knew based on previous real matches and real conversations how people ended up "being together", the unsuspecting free users.

The conversion path was: Signup -> Fill profile -> See someone you like -> Converse -> Upgrade.

The Day my Mother Fell in Love with Me --------------------------------------

Now that you have a little bit of background, the story begins. I had been working for many of the dating companies (most of them competitors) for a few months and our smart-profiles were getting quite clever.

One night after my mother invited me for diner. We started eating and drinking wine and just talking in general. I never talked about the general aspects of my work but she knew I worked with computers and back then statistics now machine learning now everything-is-AI-anyways.

Whilst on the topic of computers, she said: "Oh I haven't told you, I've actually met someone online". I didn't think anything of it, I thought it was quite nice.

Then she proceeded to tell me the following: "He also has 3 kids, he likes a lot of the same stuff I like which is really nice, and we started chatting and he's really nice. He's gone on a business trip now so we haven't talked in a few days but I'm looking forward to talking to him again".

At that moment I became very suspicious because all the signs pointed to exactly what we had been aiming at achieving. Get users to like someone, signup, chat (Which had a limit of 50 free messages at the time for that particular platform if I remember), and convert (pay) to have more chats. The trick was when people upgraded, within hours, we had some canned answers like "I'm going on a business trip won't be able to talk for about 2 weeks".

Either way, I started asking my mother a few more questions and she explained to me that she had found him after signing up and they chatted a little bit but she had to upgrade yaddi yadda and it wasn't cheap but she was glad she didn't end up wasting so much time online dating like all those other people online dating. Then I asked her about the particular website and it was one we had been working with.

She had actually fallen in love with my bots. I felt terrible not only for my mother but for the thousands of other people we had basically scammed, and only at that moment did it hit me. Up until then it was a fun challenging ML engineering problem with real-world subjects.

I quit the following day and have never been affiliated or interested in either working or using online dating since. Even though I do have friends who got married to people they have met online dating, it made me a cynical.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to have a dating site where potential matches were verified, including height, weight, and photo. Perhaps have them visit a kiosk in a participating business to get a photo taken from a standard angle (no "myspace" angles) along with a verified height and weight (stand on a scale!)

Ignoring the expense of those kioskes, for this to be fair, we would need to verify height, weight, photo, marital/relationship status, and income (paycheck stubs will need to notarized).

Plus fully functional anatomy, ready to produce offspring, and no use of hormones or antibiotics. No bodily modifications without approval, including docked ears or tails. I need to see the GMO certificates.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's frustrating is that very many sites know of this method and simply trim the "+uniqueid" from a gmail.com address before inserting it into their database.

>What's frustrating is that very many sites know of this method and simply trim the "+uniqueid" from a gmail.com address before inserting it into their database. Unfortunately, there is a mathematical theorem (greater idiot theorem) that makes it technically impossible to generate a new random string that becomes an inbox that goes to your inbox. How do I know that it's technically impossible? Because otherwise Gmail…

[deleted]

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#245
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a good read. > Even when you are paying for the product, you may still be the product.. Damn ... can you think of any other segment where this works as well? From my experience, most fraudulent businesses seem to be with one time customers.

Television

Yeah Cable TV wasn't like that, but what's better, money or more money??

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#246

I'm quite hesitant to tell this story and unfortunately, because I'm ashamed of myself, and for privacy reasons I had to create a new account for this but I wanted to tell the story of the day my mother fell in love with me. Long story short, many years ago I was working for a provider that was building algorithms for various dating websites. The goal was simple: Increase signups. A Little Bit of Background ---------…

Apologies for the broken format. I thought HN would let me use newlines rather liberally but I was obviously wrong.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yep its cause women dont have to do any work they just get chats all the time from guys but its so bad now because women are competing for the top 5% of men who are like models and everyone else gets no response

An honest question: Do you have any evidence to back up this claim? I keep hearing this claim, but I haven’t see any solid science or other data supporting it. My understanding is that women are more picky than men about who they find attractive, but less picky about who they will message and respond to.

Create a profile of an average looking guy, then create a profile with a model looking guy. The first guy will have zero girls messaging him first and will get 5% reply rate, the second guy will have girls throwing nudes and phone numbers down his inbox.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#248
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Create a fake profile to prove these are not all fake profiles? In any case, any site where the profile focuses primarily on your photo is probably going to see this going both ways: men going for the hottest women and women going for the hottest men. If you focus more on people's interests, I'd expect you're going to see a very different pattern.

The only major remaining website that tries to match people based on interests is OKCupid. And even it is changing every few months. Unfortunately, the success of Tinder and move to mobile phones first ruined most of the dating websites, which try to emulate its success. Because people mostly use phone nowadays for dating websites, long profiles are mostly gone, sending long letters is gone, many conversations are si…

I don't get why Match.com, OkCupid should converge to a Tinder-like working model if they share ownership. I guess that there are different niches of people for those different websites/apps, no?

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#249

There is only one universal law that applies to online dating, and that is: women don't need it as much as men. For women, online dating just doesn't make sense. Even on Tinder, where the ratio is kinda okay, women are bombarded with messages and likes. To the point that they can't even respond to everyone even if they wanted to. This means men are left with unresponsive women and just start to send cheaper pick up l…

I wonder why they don't limit the number of messages allowed per day. Say you only get 2.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to have a dating site where potential matches were verified, including height, weight, and photo. Perhaps have them visit a kiosk in a participating business to get a photo taken from a standard angle (no "myspace" angles) along with a verified height and weight (stand on a scale!)

Is people misrepresenting themselves something you encounter frequently? Seems like a short sighted move.

It's the paradox of choice. If you get to pick from many, and people are just a photo + description, it's easy to get more picky than you'd normally be.

If someone asked me if I want to date an overweight woman. I'd say no. But if I met a great person, and she happened to be overweight, it wouldn't really matter to me that much. So, within limits, I could accept being 'lied to' on a dating website.

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