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Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

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241–250 of 262 posts

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#241
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of shops (jewelry places mainly) and most food delivery services around me accept bitcoin. So I can use them as a currency. It's like duck typing. If it looks like a currency and behaves like a currency, it'd a currency! (Overly simplistic I know, but I'd challenge the idea that it outright can't be a currency)

Nope. You're paying not in bitcoin, but in the value of those bitcoins converted to a legal currency. Otherwise those businesses are just avoiding taxes, it would be better to pay in gold, at least it has a stable price.

The commodity being exchanged is the Bitcoin and the goods/services. If the business wants to hold the Bitcoin forever, they can. If they want to sell for USD, they can.

Paying in Bitcoin is the same way you just described as "paying in gold".

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#242
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin, Ethereum and XRP take up around 80% of total market cap and I’ll class those as legitimate enough to fall in the non-scam category. I’ll also ballpark half of the remaining 20% as not being scams (I know that’s a little debatable too, is a poor business premise a scam for example?), and I’d say that’s not too bad on the whole. If we’re talking about number of projects then I can’t disagree, there’d be no arg…

What makes you think Bitcoin, Ethereum and XRP are not scams? That's the entire point of this argument: Bitcoin is a scam. I showed you an article about how there are no legit usages (aside from those that include it out of hype but could be implemented just as well without) and another which shows you it is a digital version of the chain distributor scheme.

Its strange that you say there are no legit uses, when people keep telling you how they use it.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Cryptocurrencies provide value and do something that country backed currencies can't? They do have their own advantages and disadvantages, but it purely boils down to how many people trade in it. Take gold for example, people believe that it has value and trade in it. The price of gold is decided on the basis of market forces of demand and supply. Similarly, a cryptocurrency's worth is decided by the demand for it…

It's funny to watch how these completely illogical arguments gain momentum in crypto community, I start to be suspicious that someone is pushing them on purpose to hype the herd. Gold has superior chemical and physical features, quantum computers are built from gold. One third of the demand comes from jewellery which helps inflate the price, but even without that you hold some of industrial value, just the price woul…

Your physical gold will be confiscated by soldiers at the border. Or by the government in the name of nationalization, like the US did in Executive Order 6102.

Semantically, crypto is a "commodity", its just digital. Some also behave like securities, so it get complicated, but BTC can be compared most to gold.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#244
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin, Ethereum and XRP take up around 80% of total market cap and I’ll class those as legitimate enough to fall in the non-scam category. I’ll also ballpark half of the remaining 20% as not being scams (I know that’s a little debatable too, is a poor business premise a scam for example?), and I’d say that’s not too bad on the whole. If we’re talking about number of projects then I can’t disagree, there’d be no arg…

What makes you think Bitcoin, Ethereum and XRP are not scams? That's the entire point of this argument: Bitcoin is a scam. I showed you an article about how there are no legit usages (aside from those that include it out of hype but could be implemented just as well without) and another which shows you it is a digital version of the chain distributor scheme.

> What makes you think Bitcoin, Ethereum and XRP are not scams?

Because they deliver what they promise, and I get from them exactly what they say they’re going to give me.

Bitcoin doesn’t advertise itself as getting rich. It says it’s a digital ledger and wallet. I can use it like that. Ethereum, a platform for creating tokens and contracts. I can use it to do that. XRP, well that’s one for the banks so I’m taking a punt, but they’re doing real settlement.

Bitcoin, Ethereum, and XRP aren’t scamming me. The guy asking for Bitcoin on telegram, yes.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an example the ECB (European Central Bank, central bank for the Eurozone) declared exactly that [0], as I said in my original comment. The ECB, the Fed, the SEC (as you can read from the current HN article) all see crypto as securities and way too volatile at this time (something you don't want in a currency). This may change in the future but it doesn't change the current state of fact. Another important aspect i…

Why should governments have monopoly over the medium of exchange that its people use? Why should that power belong to them?

They don't, you can use any medium for exchange. They have monopoly in deciding what is and what isn't an official currency.

As for the rest of your question, the people give them the power as part of the democratic process. Many people realized that whether they like it or not the little protection they get from a government is better than nothing. And it's enough to look at people's reaction when they get swindled out of their completely unregulated coin: ask the government to fix it and punish the swindlers.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#246
post #78

Cryptocurrencies are scam. End. This is very simple. Yes, they are a new kind of scam, a good name suggested is Nakamoto Scheme. https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/ Also notable: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/04/05/debunking-bu... which doesn't outright call it a scam but certainly points out > Git gives you pretty much everything offered by the business case for blockchains. The one thing…

It's amusing to see such an uneducated statement be the top comment in a thread on HN. Apparently the quality isn't what it used to be. It's blatantly disengenuous to say git gives you everything offered by blockchains.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I buy heaps of stuff with bitcoin You're bartering for heaps of stuff. I get heaps of stuff by offering services or other stuff in exchange. Yet my services or other stuff are not a currency. And some towns accept taxes in form of community work for example which is also not a currency. > crypto is far from "not a currency" It's explicitly called "not a currency" by both Fed and the ECB as far as I know. Now it all…

But I'm bartering if I use £/$/€ too then. I barter my work for tokens, I exchange the tokens for goods. Does it matter what the tokens are if I can exchange them?

It matters because currencies, securities, and commodities are regulated differently and by different institutions. It may sound to you like they should be the same but they're not. They are different financial instruments, just like bonds and stocks are different from cash. What would you think if someone called an L3 cache "a CPU RAM", or an SD card a "micro hard disk"?

We're on a highly technical site so I would expect the same degree of accuracy when using terms from other fields as you expect when talking computers.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#248
post #108

Most apps have child abuse problems. Of all the examples of how modern corporations externalize risk and internalize profits, I think the child abuse for ad revenue on content is particularly egregious (one example link here is that the children are the viewers and consumers of the ads (advertising to children being worth more money in many contexts), and the child abusers post massive amounts of content that childre…

I don’t see how any of these chat apps you described is any different to IRC which I frequented as a kid. It had wll the horrors you describe but navigating that jungle made it exciting and fine tuned my radar against scammers and dodgy people. Without it, i wouldn’t have formed life long friendships, learned how to code and had a huge positive contribution on where I am today. But yeah, you can see porn on there and…

IRC wasn't targeted at children. IRC required effort and understanding to access. IRC wasn't in your pocket all the time. IRC didn't include video and picture taking capabilities built in (one would have to work at it to send content like that). IRC had moderation (admins were often responsive to issues), decentralization (each server was it's own small social network), and local communities (one could figure out the difference between a legit and sketch server); worse come to worse, people could just go somewhere else (most modern social media is tied to your phone number - something difficult for children to change - and the app your friends are on is a limiting factor, there is no running away). IRC was easily anonymous, there wasn't reverse image searches, geotagging, or having friends in your social network leak information inadvertently.

> But yeah, you can see porn on there and child predators can also access it.. so uh, child abuse or something. Lets just ban everything.

That's a straw-man of my position. Nowhere did I advocate banning anything.

I clearly stated that my issue was the harm caused for the sake of profit. Google could hire 30,000 moderators. Tumblr could (have) take(n) the issue seriously and redesigned the moderation tools it has (and it's reporting system). Kik could have improved the privacy and anonymity they offer their users (and maybe work to do something about communities that actively - basically publicly - exploit children). The operators of the fly by night chat rooms should probably be investigated, have a strongly worded meeting with an officer and prosecutor (along the lines of "your service is being actively used for extensive criminal activity; here is a search warrant"), and be arrested if they don't shut down their offerings (or radically pivot away) now that they are aware of the criminal activity they are facilitating (or if that investigation turned up their knowing facilitation of criminal activity).

My preferred alternative of federation would fix the problem by simply being better in many ways.

Your description is also a straw man of what is happening. We are talking about coordinated grooming of children. People who make many accounts (backed by using proxies, buying untraceable phone numbers, etc.), host servers and develop custom applications (e.g. targeted apps like chat rooms, or to scrape social networks for victims), and then use these tools for targeted attacks on victims (armed with personal details, secrets gained from their close friends through social engineering attacks, pretending to be multiple people, and so on). Let alone some of the recent stuff like realtime deepfakes, which I can only imagine how that is going to be used.

The victims here are children. Do you realize how regularly trained adults fail simple social engineering tests? With alarming regularity. The adversary model here is a motivated persistent personal threat. The win scenario is compromising a single child, and they can easily choose their targets. The information available includes full access to a child's social media and friend network and basically an unlimited number of tries (phrasing it like that makes me realize it can effectively be brute forced). We cannot expect children to survive that threat model unharmed.

On IRC you could log out (or log into a different server!), walk away, and play with your friends. On kik if you log out you are alone, if you walk away your life is over, all of your friends are there.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ve ever needed to buy something that your government doesn’t want you to or get your money out of a country that doesn’t want you to remove your money you’d have a different view of cryptocurrency. Scam is not how I would classify all of them at all. I’d classify them more as a mechanism of freedom. You may find yourself singing a different tune when the current QE house of cards falls and you want somewhere,…

I'll classify that as criminal. Given that our government is democratically elected and all laws have a democratic foundation what you call freedom I would call criminal. In that regard cryptocurrencies have a problem.

That sounds very authoritarian.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#250
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a background in distributed systems? In the same why the common advice with cryptography is, "one can build cipher unbreakable to the creator but not the world", the same way too "one can create a 'blockchain' that's unbreakable to the creator but not the world". Git cannot provide byzantine fault tolerance. The fault tolerance it can provide is costly in human time. Senior Engineer: Hi, I'm new here and…

You don't need byzantine fault tolerance within an organization. You need at most regular signing. For an example of how this works in the real world, consider the French NF525 system where immutable transaction auditing is legally required . Unsurprisingly, it's not done with blockchain proof-of-waste. e.g. https://support.mindbodyonline.com/s/article/Best-practices-...

>You don't need byzantine fault tolerance within an organization.

Maybe you haven't encountered a need for BFT in organizations that you've observed but it would be fallacious to say "...and ergo no organization would need BFT" (round-trip fallacy). I agree that an org doesn't need BFT if:

-Their hardware never fails

-Their hardware never goes offline

-Their permission structure never changes / No (permissioned hardware or employee) ever become unpermissioned at the human layer.

-Their hardware is in critical time sync with other system all the time.

-...

I have yet to see such a system but do see many people who don't realize their DS needs. That's fine, most people don't understand the delayed costs in not properly auditing unstable logs. Someone's got to work for bitcoin in the future.

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