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Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

theguardian.com

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Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#241

Post by TeMPOraL »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #220
TeMPOraL wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the classic I've seen used in jokes and comic strips - entry is free; once you enter, you discover that leaving costs money.

That's normal in the service industry, or in shops, for example. You get what you want, then pay on leaving. If you don't pay they detain you. Try leaving your local restaurant without someone paying for the food. They won't care if you paid your friend for the meal and he kept the money.

Fair. . A perfect example of a cognitive blind spot on my end.

Incidentally, lower-end restaurants tend to be "pay before you eat", just like fast food joints. I honestly prefer it that way; saves the cognitive burden and a lot of time (sometimes waiting for a waiter to come with the receipt can take as much time as it took to eat the food).

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#242

Post by DrJokepu »

markh wrote: post #135
rwmj wrote: post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

This brings back memories... I was the technical half of a two person team who built the very first Thomas Cook website in 1995. Of course, e-commerce was a step too far at the time, but there was much excitement when the spec for HTML frames came out mid-project (don’t judge).

There’s no shame in HTML frames in 1995.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#243

Post by shantly »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #187
mcv wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also old companies who manage to keep up and innovate, and care about competence. Not as much as tiny startups, but enough to survive and do well. One problem with the British upperclass, is that they tend to be educated at private schools like Eton, where they primarily learn confidence. So tons of British politicians and managers know how to appear to know what they're doing, without actually knowing what…

>One problem with the British upperclass, is that they tend to be educated at private schools like Eton, where they primarily learn confidence. Not limited to the British upper class. It's astounding how far someone can go in life by simply being confident, charismatic, and articulate (and tall) despite being completely full of shit.

> Not limited to the British upper class. It's astounding how far someone can go in life by simply being confident, charismatic, and articulate (and tall) despite being completely full of shit.

I've gotten a similar vibe from a lot of graduates of prestigious US schools. Very confident, fairly confrontational style of conversation. I'd actually kinda like it if I hadn't learned through feedback and midwesterness to do basically the exact opposite. I'd guess it's especially strong in those who've been through seminar-style prep schools (which is most of the "good" ones, as I understand it) before going to university.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#244

Post by Scoundreller »

mhandley wrote: post #161
Symbiote wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, there are presumably now about 50 fairly new Airbus aircraft for sale, mostly A320 or similar, plus some Boeing ones. (Various sources give different numbers for the fleet size.)

Almost all of their aircraft are leased, not actually owned by them. In the short term, they'll probably be impounded by the airports they're currently at, pending payment of landing fees. https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Thomas-Cook-Airlines

And there’s no shortage of airlines willing to pay top-dollar to charter a fleet ready-to-go yesterday.

No way the lessors will say “sure, keep using them for a while, just us pay in advance”.

The 737MAX grounding had big knock-on effects.

I just paid 30% more than I usually do for TATL tickets, for bloody November.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#245

Post by sandworm101 »

intuitionist wrote: post #232
mcv wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And from what I understand, those are exactly the skills they teach you at schools like Eton. Well, maybe not being tall, but certainly the other ones. I think the world would do well to try to inoculate itself against this sort of superficial confidence. It's way too effective, with frequently harmful results.

As basketball analysts like to say, you can’t teach height.

But eton does teach kids to stand up strait.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#246

Post by cjrp »

mcv wrote: post #139
Scoundreller wrote: post #23

Guardian reports: > Dozens of charter planes have been brought in from as far afield as Malaysia to assist with the mass airlift. Getting a charter plane has been quite difficult since the 737MAX grounding. Any excess capacity has been soaked up. There have been lots of unusual chartering by airlines that don’t usually charter. Air Canada had been using some, and it’s exceptionally rare for them to not use AC-branded…

Why are extra planes even necessary? There were already return flights planned, right? Why not have those fly anyway? Maybe they're owned by Thomas Cook and the crew won't get paid anymore, but it'd be nice if the government could step in and let those parts of the company continue operating until every is home again. That's much less disruptive than keeping the original planes grounded, and chartering different plan…

Would you take a plane flown by two pilots who have just been told they've lost their jobs?

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#247

Post by seanalltogether »

Cakez0r wrote: post #235
dehrmann wrote: post #45

I was recently debating booking a flight to Europe on Norwegian. It didn't affect my decision, but I'm very aware that they're struggling financially, so I'd only buy the tickets less than a month out on a credit card so it's the bank's money, and if they declared bankruptcy and cancelled flights, c'est la vie.

Ah, nuts! I had no idea Norwegian was struggling. I have a long-haul flight booked with them for Christmas :(

My brother just came to visit me on Norwegians NY->Dublin route. He said when he got on the flight they made an announcement that it was their last flight for that route ever. They have already cancelled their Providence->Dublin route as well so I'm a bit bummed I won't be able to fly back to the states cheaply in the near term.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#248

Post by C1sc0cat »

gmueckl wrote: post #193
C1sc0cat wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one who specialises in enterprise SEO. That is still an issue with many businesses, websites are still seen as just an electronic version of a poster on a bill board, its gradually changing. And Eu companies are even worse, a few years back I suggested a link from a German parents website to the uk subsidiary and was told the Head office lawyers where checking to see if they "where allowed" to add a link.

In German law, if you add a link to another site somewhere on your own site, you take responsibility for the content on the site you link you. You are required to check for that or face liability. This the result of years of court cases around this matter. And courts don't usually understand much about the web, let alone tech in general. So while involving lawyers every time is definitely high on the CYA scale, it ma…

Has ever happened and does this also cover newspapers?

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#249

Post by kzrdude »

Cakez0r wrote: post #235
dehrmann wrote: post #45

I was recently debating booking a flight to Europe on Norwegian. It didn't affect my decision, but I'm very aware that they're struggling financially, so I'd only buy the tickets less than a month out on a credit card so it's the bank's money, and if they declared bankruptcy and cancelled flights, c'est la vie.

Ah, nuts! I had no idea Norwegian was struggling. I have a long-haul flight booked with them for Christmas :(

I think they had problems due to 737-max being grounded.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#250

Post by visarga »

em500 wrote: post #133
visarga wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case the shareholders should be held responsible for leaving people stranded.

The whole point of a limited liability company is to shield shareholders from responsibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability#Justificatio...

That's a catch 22. The company has a duty to its shareholders first, and shareholders are protected from responsibility.
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