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MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

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Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#241

Post by willio58 »

saagarjha wrote: post #240
archeantus wrote: post #237

I think Jony was shown the door over this debacle, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Phil is next. When is the last time you’ve seen Phil on stage at an event? He’s the one who introduced these keyboards and praised them up and down, he’s probably going to take the fall for them as well. I have money burning a hole in my pocket right now to buy a MBP but I can’t do it. It is literally a defective product. Shame on Apple…

> When is the last time you’ve seen Phil on stage at an event? The September event?

I was going to say — nearly every recent event.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#242

Post by saagarjha »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #136
p1necone wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, as someone who's primarily used Windows (and a bit of Linux with xfce) for my entire life I find Macs basically unusable (seriously how do I browse the file system). I think it's more of a question of familiarity than anything else.

I hear you about Finder. Windows File explorer seems a lot easier and more feature rich compared to Finder. The single most annoying thing is that there is no easy/ obvious way to grab the path to a file/folder in Finder, which seems like the most basic of features. I did figure out a keyboard shortcut at some point, but Finder feels so dated as a file manager.

> The single most annoying thing is that there is no easy/ obvious way to grab the path to a file/folder in Finder, which seems like the most basic of features.

Right click and hold down the option key, I believe.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#243

Post by x0x0 »

jimpudar wrote: post #130
p1necone wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, as someone who's primarily used Windows (and a bit of Linux with xfce) for my entire life I find Macs basically unusable (seriously how do I browse the file system). I think it's more of a question of familiarity than anything else.

What do you find lacking in Finder for browsing the filesystem? Also, Spotlight tends to work great for me whereas Windows search almost never finds what I want. You also have the terminal, so you're free to `cd`, `find`, `locate`, etc...

tab completion also works in Finder. You can open it with command-G

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#244

Post by gonational »

My personal MBP wishlist:

* the new keyboard (2015 style or better)

* no touchbar (F keys, please)

* magsafe (with cables wrapped in something stronger than a tortilla)

* battery capacity that maxes out the FAA limit

* serious graphics (as an option)

* better screen coating that doesn’t flake off or scratch easily

* an even darker gray / charcoal color option

* finally... no fingerprint reader (they’re useful, but I’d rather have the added cost spent elsewhere and keep the surface clean - it takes me less than 3 seconds to type my 30 char password, unlike phones where this would be impossible)

———

If Apple can deliver on all the points above, I will spend $3k. If not, I’ll just continue until my 2011 and 2015 MBPs are dead and then move onto something else (some linux notebook). I’ve been waiting for 2 years to upgrade.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#245

Post by saagarjha »

ethagnawl wrote: post #173
ggm wrote: post #151

I don't know anyone who was a real TTY user who likes on touchbar. I don't know any EMACS user who likes on touchbar. If I do the join over these and anyone else I ask, I actually don't know anyone who likes on touchbar. I think Apple took a long standing market acceptance in the community I live in, and basically trashed it, for lipgloss. I expect to move to a Lenovo Carbon X1, with qualms.

From what I remember, the blasted virtual escape key is also not flush with the top/left corner of the touchbar -- like the escape key is on ~every other keyboard in existence. I had to use one of these machines for work recently and I hated every minute of it. Going back to my ThinkPad T430, running Debian and i3, was _such_ a relief.

> From what I remember, the blasted virtual escape key is also not flush with the top/left corner of the touchbar -- like the escape key is on ~every other keyboard in existence.

You can tap anywhere in that corner and it’ll register.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#246

Post by mantap »

b3b0p wrote: post #215
zmmmmm wrote: post #35

The worst thing is, the 2015 MBP keyboard was nearly perfect. The vast majority of the time I don't even use an external keyboard even when I am working at a desk and am plugged into monitor. It's one thing to fail at designing something because it is hard and you haven't figured it out yet. It's quite another to regress to incompetence on something you already perfected.

Can't agree. Coming from a Thinkpad (the standard for what makes a great keyboard), PowerBook Titanium (keyboard was bad, but nothing like the 2016/17 MacBook Pro), PowerBook 12 / 17 (my favorite), and the first MacBook Pro (still pretty great) everything starting with the unibody has been downhill. Ever since, the keyboard and I believe battery even have not been user replaceable. There was a time one could walk int…

The pre-chiclet keyboards were okay for their era but the <=2015 chiclet design is just so much more comfortable because of the lack of sharp edges and does a much better job at keeping dust out than the old open design.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#247

Post by erikpukinskis »

archeantus wrote: post #237

I think Jony was shown the door over this debacle, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Phil is next. When is the last time you’ve seen Phil on stage at an event? He’s the one who introduced these keyboards and praised them up and down, he’s probably going to take the fall for them as well. I have money burning a hole in my pocket right now to buy a MBP but I can’t do it. It is literally a defective product. Shame on Apple…

This is absurd. No way their chief of design who led dozens of successful product launches is fired for a niche complaint about a niche product. It’s not like there was some malfeasance here.

Ive has certainly lost touch with what makes good design, probably he is just burnt out, but I find it very difficult to believe he was forced out.

He never wanted to live in California in the first place. I think Apple was able to squeeze a lot of extra years out of him, but he’s had his “fuck you money” for a long time, and the work is no longer engaging enough to keep him here.

He was never particularly interested in software and that’s where Apple Design needs to focus now. The AR glasses are an interesting design problem but it’s so software heavy I doubt Ive can really stay engaged with it.

The car is probably an interesting project, but I’m sure he’s been through the complete design of several cars in the last decade, and it’s not design holding that back, it’s engineering. Self driving is required to unlock the roadmap I’m sure they’ve already mapped out.

He could probably get excited about the design-for-manufacturing problem there, but it’s an ENORMOUS problem compared to iPhone. I don’t think he has the tolerance for chaos Elon has, and which you need to build a factory of that complexity.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#248

Post by kalleboo »

orpheline wrote: post #226
kalleboo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a life-long Mac user, I feel the opposite. Whenever I have to use Windows, it feels like Windows Explorer is missing lots of features I take for granted, some that the Mac has had since the 90's. Stuff like spring-loaded drag and drop, directory sizes being calculated in list views, QuickLook... It also has some really braindead design choices like sorting directories separate from files, making navigating with th…

Interesting. I use a MBP for work, and hate that Finder intermixes directories and files. I much prefer having directories sorted separately: it makes it easier to drill down through a hierarchy of all the directories are grouped together...

I browse my file system a lot with the keyboard by typing the first few letters in a file name, and if directories are sorted on the top, that means getting to a file starting with the letter "F" is way more difficult when there are also directories named with "F". It also makes things messy when you have related files and folder. E.g. how Firefox saves a website as a "page name.html" and a directory with the assets "page name files". Suddenly these aren't grouped together and copying them together means scrolling back and forth.

At least in the Finder on the Mac you can turn your preferred behavior on (it's in preferences/advanced). On Windows AFAIK there is no setting for it.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#249

Post by abhijat »

jasonhansel wrote: post #122
therein wrote: post #10

> If Apple releases their new Macs with an identical keyboard, then I'm ditching Macs and will pick up a Microsoft Surface Book or something similar. Whatever it is, I'll make sure to pick a laptop that has a god damned functional keyboard. Same here, MBP keyboards are unbearable. Trying to develop on OSX has become a hassle. Gotta jump through hoops to get gdb to work. Windows with WSL on a Surface Book feels extrem…

Switch to Linux! (Yes, I know I'm one of those people.)

I asked my workplace if I could switch from the new macbook pro with the touchbar I got when I joined to linux on thinkpad (this was after a month of using the macbook pro btw), they agreed and I got an x1 carbon with ubuntu on it.

So much better IMO, just the keyboard alone was worth the switch. I was a little worried I would miss the display but I really don't mind the smaller screen.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#250

Post by dangoor »

My tip, which seems to be working for me so far: I upgraded from a 2015 to a 2018 a few months ago, and _immediately_ added a silicone keyboard cover that I got on Amazon for $8 or so.

It's really thin and doesn't bother me, but the key thing is that it keeps everything out of the keyboard. So far, my keys continue to all work just fine. It could be luck, but it could also be that no dust or anything is getting trapped in the butterfly switches.

I will give the disclaimer that much of the time I'm typing on a bluetooth keyboard, but I still get quite a bit of use out of the built-in keyboard as well.

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