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US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

theverge.com

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Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#241

Post by CamperBob2 »

MisterTea wrote: post #224
Justsignedup wrote: post #198

Wait. Let me get this straight. Touchscreens, which are ideal for representing multiple user unterfaces in an intuitive way, but requiring constant visual contact are being replaced by a physical user interface that can be used by both touch, and memory? Why was touchscreen ever even a consideration for controls you're not looking at? Touchscreen is great for phones. It is awful for keyboards (see macbook pro). And i…

Well, it worked on Star Trek. Then again, that was addressed in a Voyager episode when Tom Paris designs the helm in their new runabout with old fashioned buttons and switches because he wanted to actually feel the controls much to Tuvok's dismay. Though, on a serious note, I work in industrial automation and user interfaces, aka HMI's have been touch oriented for quite some time. It was and still is common to see gr…

I installed encoder knobs to emulate potentiometers

There's really no need to force this decision to go in either direction. Ever since I first heard of capacitive multitouch, going back to the timeframe before the first iPhone announcement, I've been waiting for someone to build 'stick-on' encoder knobs that the touchscreen controller can read.

These would simply take the form of a knob with a metal leaf or other polygonal electrode in its base, whose rotation could be sensed by code similar to that used to implement crappy 'virtual potentiometers' on existing touchscreens. The fixed part of the knob base would be epoxied or otherwise bonded directly to the screen surface, or perhaps held in place with some sort of frame.

Doesn't seem to have happened yet despite being an incredibly obvious (and inexpensive!) thing to do. Seems like the MIDI community would be all over something like this, even if no one else considered it worthwhile.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#242

Post by wruza »

cletus wrote: post #110

Great. If only monitor manufacturers would do the same thing. I have a monitor with exactly 2 inputs (1 DP, 1 HDMI). What do I need to do to switch between them? 1. Press the Menu button 2. Move the option to Input Source 3. Select Input Source 4. Move from one to the other 5. Press Select Some monitor will compress 1-3 into a single Input Source option. Still, 3 presses? Why does literally NO ONE make a monitor with…

On my Acer I can save presets as 3 Game Modes OR do:

  any button
  right x4-7 (depending on previous mode)
  enter x2
  down
  enter
  left/right (brightness)
  exit
  down
  enter
  left/right (contrast)
  exit x3
Basically there are only 3 brightness modes on $850 monitor with 400cd/m2 range. Thanks to some fucking idiot who thought that a pair of knobs would look too old.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#243

Post by devnulloverflow »

Justsignedup wrote: post #198

Wait. Let me get this straight. Touchscreens, which are ideal for representing multiple user unterfaces in an intuitive way, but requiring constant visual contact are being replaced by a physical user interface that can be used by both touch, and memory? Why was touchscreen ever even a consideration for controls you're not looking at? Touchscreen is great for phones. It is awful for keyboards (see macbook pro). And i…

> Touchscreens, which are ideal for representing multiple user unterfaces

I am no expert on this, but from talking to people in the aviation industry I noticed slow a trend away from the cockpit-with-2,000 controls and towards using computer screens which switch between display multiple things. Or rather, there still are 2,000 controls, but thanks to the computer-screens, the number hasn't blown up to 200,000.

So my guess is the touchscreens in these ships replaced some computer screen where input (and mode switching) had been done by physical buttons. And now they are moving it back.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#244

Post by cameronbrown »

starsinspace wrote: post #239
MisterTea wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it worked on Star Trek. Then again, that was addressed in a Voyager episode when Tom Paris designs the helm in their new runabout with old fashioned buttons and switches because he wanted to actually feel the controls much to Tuvok's dismay. Though, on a serious note, I work in industrial automation and user interfaces, aka HMI's have been touch oriented for quite some time. It was and still is common to see gr…

> Well, it worked on Star Trek. IIRC the official explanation from the makers of Star Trek is that the displays look like simple touch screens, but they are actually overlaid with structured force fields, so for the users it feels like a physical button press.

tbf this could be achievable with Apple's virtual click tech. Would like to see how that'd work in practice.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#245

Post by devnulloverflow »

reificator wrote: post #214
ivanhoe wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one project for automotive industry we had a huge problem with touchscreen interface because mechanics often have grease and dirt on their hands and the touch screens we used would get all confused with the residue left on the screen. We first tried to fix it in the software, but quickly realized it's much easier to switch to custom control board with specialized buttons and keyboard, just wrap them in plastic bag…

> Unexpectedly, it turned out to be faster for users too. I'm not anti-touchscreen by any measure, but did you really find that surprising? It seems common knowledge to me that keyboard shortcuts are faster than touchscreens for most tasks.

Ever since mouses and GUIs were invented it was common knowledge that "ordinary" users don't bother to learn keyboard shortcuts.

That common knowledge is wrong, but it comes from an important truth: brand new users who are not yet committed to your product will get frustrated if the thing they need to do is hidden away as a key-binding or command-line command.

So successful products optimise for the UX of a user who doesn't yet know how to use the product well. And such users really love touchscreens.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#246

Post by [deleted] »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #241
MisterTea wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it worked on Star Trek. Then again, that was addressed in a Voyager episode when Tom Paris designs the helm in their new runabout with old fashioned buttons and switches because he wanted to actually feel the controls much to Tuvok's dismay. Though, on a serious note, I work in industrial automation and user interfaces, aka HMI's have been touch oriented for quite some time. It was and still is common to see gr…

I installed encoder knobs to emulate potentiometers There's really no need to force this decision to go in either direction. Ever since I first heard of capacitive multitouch, going back to the timeframe before the first iPhone announcement, I've been waiting for someone to build 'stick-on' encoder knobs that the touchscreen controller can read. These would simply take the form of a knob with a metal leaf or other po…

[deleted]

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#247

Post by eropple »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #241
MisterTea wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it worked on Star Trek. Then again, that was addressed in a Voyager episode when Tom Paris designs the helm in their new runabout with old fashioned buttons and switches because he wanted to actually feel the controls much to Tuvok's dismay. Though, on a serious note, I work in industrial automation and user interfaces, aka HMI's have been touch oriented for quite some time. It was and still is common to see gr…

I installed encoder knobs to emulate potentiometers There's really no need to force this decision to go in either direction. Ever since I first heard of capacitive multitouch, going back to the timeframe before the first iPhone announcement, I've been waiting for someone to build 'stick-on' encoder knobs that the touchscreen controller can read. These would simply take the form of a knob with a metal leaf or other po…

This reminds me of the Surface Dial. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-dial/925r551sktgn

Being able to set the dial on the screen and just turn it is a really good-feeling workflow, though likely not for something as mission-critical as the article is describing.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#248

Post by archon »

Izkata wrote: post #230
MisterTea wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it worked on Star Trek. Then again, that was addressed in a Voyager episode when Tom Paris designs the helm in their new runabout with old fashioned buttons and switches because he wanted to actually feel the controls much to Tuvok's dismay. Though, on a serious note, I work in industrial automation and user interfaces, aka HMI's have been touch oriented for quite some time. It was and still is common to see gr…

Star Trek's bridge controls can be reconfigured, but there's a standard static configuration that doesn't change while they're in use. This is also referenced at a different point in Voyager when Tuvok is annoyed by how Tom Paris uses a nonstandard configuration. So that at least reduces the need for constant visual contact.

There's another Voyager episode in which Tuvok is temporarily blinded and he tells the computer to turn on the tactile interface so he can work on a computer console. So even 25 years ago before everyone had a touchscreen in their pockets, it was obvious that touch screens wouldn't be great for all situations.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#249

Post by beached_whale »

cameronbrown wrote: post #244
starsinspace wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, it worked on Star Trek. IIRC the official explanation from the makers of Star Trek is that the displays look like simple touch screens, but they are actually overlaid with structured force fields, so for the users it feels like a physical button press.

tbf this could be achievable with Apple's virtual click tech. Would like to see how that'd work in practice.

I assume, that actions like turning/twisting do not work well on touch screens. you can do sliders but for somethings that may not give the correct control. I can probably turn a knob at finer increments than I can slide my finger on the screen.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#250

Post by einpoklum »

Justsignedup wrote: post #198

Wait. Let me get this straight. Touchscreens, which are ideal for representing multiple user unterfaces in an intuitive way, but requiring constant visual contact are being replaced by a physical user interface that can be used by both touch, and memory? Why was touchscreen ever even a consideration for controls you're not looking at? Touchscreen is great for phones. It is awful for keyboards (see macbook pro). And i…

They're ideal for Steve Jobs to make marketing presentations of.

On a more serious note - the touch-screen is the greatest "generalist" UI configuration: A whole lot is possible, but no UI is any good, in the sense of having tactile elements.

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