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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#241

Post by sytelus »

mikeash wrote: post #135
colejohnson66 wrote: post #100

CloudFlare is not a notice board. They are practically a utility. PG&E aren’t a government, and they can’t cut off your electricity because you’re an extremist. What about ISPs? Should Cox, Comcast, Frontier, etc be liable for what flows through their pipes? Media companies say yes, but what do you do when your ISP says “bye” because you visit 4chan? Go to another ISP? In most areas of the US, you can’t

A utility is typically a natural monopoly providing some sort of essential service. Cloudflare is neither.

What happens if all other providers refuse you as well on same basis? What if Comcast refuse you to provide any internet service because they don't like your views on net neutrality?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#242

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

sytelus wrote: post #205

This is the same argument cake shops make against taking order from gay people. I do believe that so-called manifesto is mind-numbingly dumb, fact-free and it is dangerous in the sense it will inspire more violence against innocent people. But that precisely what makes it a good test case for asking some fundamental questions. Can commercial businesses with deep reach, pricing power and critical function deny service…

> Can commercial businesses with deep reach, pricing power and critical function deny services based on their ideology and beliefs? The legal answer is yes and that only looks troublesome when you think of how tables could turn in future.

The people cheering this are also forgetting which political party in the US has the closest ties with big business. Needless to say, this will eventually come back to haunt them.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#243

Post by dghughes »

umvi wrote: post #34

It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…

I disagree.

News reports what happened. These days people seem to see news organizations as the enemy or at least the news organizations they don't like.

Although one thing I have noticed about news these days is it tends to voice personal opinion openly much more than years ago. Walter Cronkite, Tom Brokaw, Peter Jennings wouldn't spout their own opinion they'd tell you what happened, and that's it.

Show the bodies, name the attackers, send reports to the NRA, government officials don't take no for an answer hound them day and night for a reply. Make it uncomfortable for everyone so much so that everyone wants to prevent another event from occurring.

There is no way to hide what happened or who did it in this age of information. If information lacking people just make up their own story or create conspiracy theories to fill the void.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#244

Post by mikeash »

busymom0 wrote: post #180
mikeash wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A utility is typically a natural monopoly providing some sort of essential service. Cloudflare is neither.

Telecom companies like AT&T aren't providing "essential service". Being able to call/text someone is not a "essential service". Yet they are not supposed to ban people because they are merely the carrier.

Being able to call people is pretty essential in the modern world. That’s why these laws exist and why governments have put so much effort into making these services available to everyone.

The phone company is required to serve you even if they disagree with you not because of some high-minded ideas about free speech, but because it’s considered really important for people to have phone service.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#245

Post by ggggtez »

busymom0 wrote: post #180
mikeash wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A utility is typically a natural monopoly providing some sort of essential service. Cloudflare is neither.

Telecom companies like AT&T aren't providing "essential service". Being able to call/text someone is not a "essential service". Yet they are not supposed to ban people because they are merely the carrier.

Why are you talking about telecoms. Cloud Flare is not a telecom.

Were you under a rock during Net Neutrality? Don't you realize you are saying nonsense?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#246

Post by seanieb »

mehrdadn wrote: post #76

Why is CloudFlare having to deal with this rather than their ISP?

Also the argument that Cloudflare is just a network provider is bunk. It works on people who think server less computing doesn't use servers. CF uses servers that store files, for minutes hours, days weeks at a time and serves them directly to the browser. The same as any web server.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#247

Post by RobAtticus »

colordrops wrote: post #230
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't The problem is there is a simmering domestic nationalistic terrorism threat to the country - and that is news. The killer in TX directly referenced it, as did very many of the prior mass-murders of recent. That is noteworthy, and fundamentally different from people killed in a…

Can you cite evidence for this? My understanding is that deaths due to mass shootings hasn't really changed since the 70s, but rather the media coverage has expanded.

That seems unlikely. The first graph[1] on this Wiki[2] article shows from 1982 until 2017 -- so not the exact range you mentioned -- but it shows that mass shooting deaths are higher today than decades ago.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S...

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#248

Post by phs318u »

colordrops wrote: post #230
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't The problem is there is a simmering domestic nationalistic terrorism threat to the country - and that is news. The killer in TX directly referenced it, as did very many of the prior mass-murders of recent. That is noteworthy, and fundamentally different from people killed in a…

Can you cite evidence for this? My understanding is that deaths due to mass shootings hasn't really changed since the 70s, but rather the media coverage has expanded.

On what do you base your understanding?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#249

Post by madamelic »

Untit1ed wrote: post #17
cameronbrown wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Having this content out in the open means we can monitor it. I totally get why Cloudflare would not want to do business with 8Chan, but every step towards pushing 8Chan and it's members underground is less visibility into the kind of people who operate on the site.

Less visibility for those not already on it looking to join in too though. If it gets forced so far underground that law enforcement can't figure out a way in I don't see how some disaffected youth somewhere could either.

>If it gets forced so far underground that law enforcement can't figure out a way in I don't see how some disaffected youth somewhere could either.

You massively overestimate law enforcement interest and ability, and massively underestimate the technical abilities of teenagers.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#250

Post by internet_user »

hi5eyes wrote: post #150
zzzeek wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by not reporting on it, the public is not made aware of this very tragic problem which can in fact be improved by several orders of magnitude with the return of some simple political will. Political will requires media publicity, so in that sense, the media is doing the right thing here.

*so in that sense, the media is juicing its numbers thats all they're doing >public is not made aware of this very tragic problem everyone is quite aware of what the problems are, many view the children murdered during Sandy Hook as the end of the conversation. The decisions were made. most first world countries have solved these problems, the US meanwhile... ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regu…

Think about this event for 1 minute: He drove for -9- hours. NINE HOURS.

Do you think it would take less than 9 hours to pour some diesel fuel on fertilizer and flatten the entire WalMart?

People will just move on to other weapons: knives, bombs, etc.

Norway has very restrictive gun laws. Breivik managed to get enough fertilizer to make a bomb that was mostly a distraction, but still sent 8 people to grave and injured hundreds.

UK is having a knife problem: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48186035

You are at 10x higher chance of death by vehicle.

The -only- reason it is seen as a tragedy because people feel those deaths were somehow avoidable.

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