It aims to present users with the highest quality and lowest price hospitals in your area:
Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
241–250 of 345 posts
Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
By paying even $0.01 you acknowledge the validity of the debt and then it’s much easier for them to sue you and get a judgement.
Wait really? How so? It's not like they would otherwise lack sufficient evidence to show you showed up and received care, right? I would've thought acknowledging would just restart the clock, which would've made no difference here.
On the other hand if an invoice is never realized because it's in dispute, then you have a stronger leg to stand on. A different way to look at is in sit-down dining. You receive service, you are delivered a bill, you are then expected at the moment the bill is delivered to review it and pay it, and if you pay it the bill is settled. If you have a dispute because nobody ordered a diet coke, then the bill is rejected and hopefully sorted out before a final bill is presented and people pay for it. The same sort of logic ends up applying here. If you paid for half the meal and left that has different outcomes compared to not paying the bill and causing a stink.
Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Putting the patient into medical debt also causes harm
All pharmaceuticals should be tested against the control of handing the patient the cost of the medication in cash. I bet hundreds of dollars a month would provide depression and anxiety relief for a significant portion of the population.
If you think money relieves anything—regardless of the amount—you're quite mistaken.
Robin Williams was a literal multi-millionaire, and if money relieved anything, he'd still be here.
Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/10/25/doctors-sal... Providers are the core problem. Various doctor associations (AMA et al) have strangled supply side of healthcare through State licensure and scope of practice laws. Just read medical forums to get an idea of what an average doctor thinks about competition in the form of midlevels: https://www.auntminnie.com/Forum/tm.aspx?m=581583 "Don’t teach your mid le…
That forum is amazing! Thanks for the primary source! That said, two quibbles/questions: Those same threads have logins like "indebt4life" and "kids2feed", which matches what I've heard from doctor friends: the length and cost of medical training and insurance are so brutal that the folks gatekeeping are themselves in an unhealthy lifestyle and don't want it to get worse. In other words, and benefits of gatekeeping a…
We should treat it like the infantry. If you want to drive a tank and blow up people, you don't apply to a college and get a Doctorate in Blowing People Up. You don't buy insurance to cover if you blow up the wrong people. You join the army.
I'd like to see health care reform inspired by military structure. A high-schooler eager to get into medicine joins the Health Corps, and gets their education covered in exchange for n years of working in state-run facilities. There's strongly restricted legal recourse if the Health Corps hospital cuts off the wrong foot-- here's $500 and a really nice wooden peg.
As a self-contained system, I could also imagine it working around some of the structure that's restricting the industry. I'm picturing programmes to advance in both through direct study and training, and where appropriate "field promotions" (think of the 20-year term nurse who knows more than most of the doctors from experience, but will never be able to escape their position without expensive and onerous formal training/certification)
Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
Finally, someone said this. It's very rare to see putting some blame on doctors for such exorbitant medical prices in the US. I have made several comments about that on HN describing similar observation that I found. A recent example was when I went to see a doctor for ear infection. She put a otoscope in my ear, looked at it for one minute, prescribed me some anti-bacterial, and wrote up $250 for the service. The fi…
> the physicians who treat garden-variety diseases can be trained much less expensively. So, how do you make sure that only garden variety patients see the medical assistant, while seriously sick ones or those who have only telltale signs of a 1-10k illness see the real doctor? If those rare ones don't get to the doc they die.
Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
So why doesn't the triage nurse hand out the Benadryl, tell the patient to wait in the lobby for an hour, and see if that resolves it? They could charge $75 for the single pill, and still avoid using a bed or the services of additional staff.
That’s not how the process works for an ER. A doc in a box urgent care would essentially do that. An ER handles everything from bee stings to shootings or strokes. They’re optimized to deal with those emergencies, not optimize cost for minor dings, especially when most of the minor issues are uninsured people who won’t pay anyway. Emergency medicine is not a profit center, and is often mandated to exist. You’re payin…
Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
#247I believe/am hopeful that since I live in New York, which prohibits out-of-network providers from surprise billing patients without the patient's informed and explicit consent that the procedure would be considered out-of-network [0], that I ultimately won't be held liable for the bill.
Fortunately as a software engineer, I can trivially afford to pay the bill in the worst case. But I shudder to think of the consequences for someone in a much less privileged circumstance.
[0]: https://www.dfs.ny.gov/consumers/health_insurance/surprise_m...
Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
#248I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/10/25/doctors-sal... Providers are the core problem. Various doctor associations (AMA et al) have strangled supply side of healthcare through State licensure and scope of practice laws. Just read medical forums to get an idea of what an average doctor thinks about competition in the form of midlevels: https://www.auntminnie.com/Forum/tm.aspx?m=581583 "Don’t teach your mid le…
I'd be fine with it if it wasn't healthcare. He doesn't even like being a doctor. Something is broken.
Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
#249Having lived in the US for over a decade, I am disappointed with the system. I also notice that nobody in this thread, so far, has talked about liability and the overly litigious aspect of the American society. There are so many lawyers that are willing to file malpractice lawsuits against anybody in the medical industry which also raises costs overall.
Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521
#250I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/10/25/doctors-sal... Providers are the core problem. Various doctor associations (AMA et al) have strangled supply side of healthcare through State licensure and scope of practice laws. Just read medical forums to get an idea of what an average doctor thinks about competition in the form of midlevels: https://www.auntminnie.com/Forum/tm.aspx?m=581583 "Don’t teach your mid le…
It seems like mid level providers are being granted more and more autonomy each year. In fact, they have full practice authority in 20 states (no need to work under a physician). Knowing that, are the AMA et al truly strangling the supply side of healthcare? From the politico article you linked, it seems that the number of specialists we have is unnecessary, so that can't be it.
I'd like to think that most doctors aren't trying to out-compete mid-level providers, and that most doctors are trying to do right by their patients. Maybe that's naïve.
I also agree that the wages for physicians are too high, and that reform from the ground up (education costs, healthcare costs, and reimbursements) is desperately needed. However, to state that providers are the core problem is tremendously naive. The average salary of physicians, even at $250,000/yr, with 1 million physicians in the US is $250 billion/yr. In comparison, the revenue from the health insurance industry was around $1 trillion in 2017. The hospital industry made $970 billion in 2016. The pharmaceutical industry made $450 billion in 2016, I can only imagine that number went up. I can see how the insurance industry and hospital revenue would be tied in physician reimbursements somewhat, and obviously pharmaceutical payments, but the pharmaceutical industry shouldn't be impacted by physician salaries.
As a side note, very few doctors I've had the pleasure of knowing have any idea what their services cost patients. Proceduralists generally have a better idea.
For those of you interested, I'll try to explain what is needed in a residency program. Your program needs to provide you with the training necessary to be proficient at all aspects of that specialty by the end of your training. That means you need the patient volume, mentorship, and variety to meet that standard. It just so happens that it's very difficult to meet that standard unless you're at a larger institution. Community programs do exist, but today the vast majority of programs except for family medicine are at academic centers.
What that also means is that you can't train too many doctors in one place at one time. Especially in the case of surgical specialties - You need as many procedures as you can get in your residency, extra residents take those procedures away from you.
That isn't to say that more family medicine and primary-care track residencies aren't needed, they absolutely are. At the same time, without more Medicare funding for these residencies (per the politico article it takes around $150,000/yr to train a resident physician) hospitals aren't willing to take on the extra cost. A bill is hopefully making its way through the House to increase the funding for more residencies (15,000 new spots over 5 years).
Ultimately, I think the trend is going to be that more and more doctors will specialize, and mid level providers will be mostly nurse practitioner or physician assistants. Hopefully the data will continue to be positive in terms of outcomes, and prove that we just don't need the amount of training we thought we did for those providers.
P.S. While I'm not going into primary care, I loved my family medicine rotation in school. I felt like I had genuine impact on my patients, met some of the most down to earth doctors, and it was an active day with lots of variety.