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Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time

anandtech.com

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Re: Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time

#241

Post by pizza234 »

ksec wrote: post #39

I used to be Pro Anandtech and consider them one of the best Sources online for Hardware News. But the fact they have yet write a single post, big or small about Intel's Zombieload and its implication on performance worries me a bit. Then there is the "Intel" benchmarks as usual [1] on GPU. Trying to suggest the 2 CPU were both running at 25W TDP to give a "fair" comparison, without mentioning the Ice-Lake U CPU were…

I think the point about the Ice Lake announcement is a mischaracterization.

It's typical for news sites to report individual announcements, with little or no analysis; this is fair, as long as the post clearly specifies its nature (which, in this case, does).

Anandtech did something very interesting actually on the Intel subject, which I didn't see on other sites - it made an article about the performance of the i9-9900k locked at its nominal TDP (95W), which showed very significant losses.

Re: Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time

#243

Post by IgorPartola »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #117
lawrenceyan wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From how Apple and AMD are doing with their own processors though, it seems like Intel is just fundamentally doing worse even as things become more difficult with smaller transistor sizes. Apple is going to replace Intel with their own processors because Intel has failed to meet requirements. AMD, with a shoestring budget basically on the verge of bankruptcy the entire time they were doing their R&D, managed to build…

Oddly enough, the challenge of estimating who is "ahead" is kind of like traffic. Intel arrived at the scaling traffic jam way before anyone else, and has been slowly slogging through it. New entrants are catching up to the traffic jam and will have to make their way through it as well. If there is no breakthrough, then everyone will find themselves more tightly bunched in feature/performance curves than they have be…

Bad analogy. You can prove that getting in line earliest will get you out of it earliest. If you postulate that it’s more complex than that, it might hold up. You could say that Intel is driving a semi, while others are mini coopers and motorcycles, splitting lanes and better at speeding up/slowing down. At which point no analogy is necessary: startups and smaller companies are more nimble than larger companies, at the trade off of resources.

Re: Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time

#245

Post by consp »

wtallis wrote: post #198
the8472 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phoronix has multiple articles on the impact of those vulnerabilities, from small laptop to large server processors.

The perk of being able to test on Linux is that it's much easier to fully automate testing. Unfortunately, their analysis tends to be shallow.

Their audience is not mainstream but enthousiast And professionals. They do not provide in depth analysis since they probably know the reader can do that for themselves.

Re: Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time

#246

Post by coldtea »

keldaris wrote: post #189
coldtea wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My remark regarding "wild hysteria" was made in that context. Considering we are referring to attacks that can bypass your PC's security, "prudence" is a better word than hysteria. Yes, if they are left alone, it is the "end of the world". They can be used to make any modern OS and browser as full of holes as Windows 98.

> Considering we are referring to attacks that can bypass your PC's security, "prudence" is a better word than hysteria. That statement can be made about any vulnerability whatsoever. The merit of any mitigation can only be determined by a cost/benefit analysis that takes into account the potential impact of the vulnerability as well as the very real costs of mitigating it. > Yes, if they are left alone, it is the "e…

>Not a single one of these vulnerabilities has been used to cause any measurable damage anywhere that we know of, whereas the mitigations deployed have significant costs that everyone must pay.

That's like saying: "nobody was drowned that we know of, whereas there was a significant cost to building the dam that everyone paid". (And also not dissimilar to arguments about doing no major industry/lifestyle changes regarding climate change).

It's exactly because there were mitigations relatively quickly deployed that we didn't have a "hack em all" exploit doing the rounds in hundreds of millions of devices. The difficulty of exploiting also gave some leeway to deploying those mitigations.

Re: Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time

#247

Post by wtallis »

coldtea wrote: post #246
keldaris wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Considering we are referring to attacks that can bypass your PC's security, "prudence" is a better word than hysteria. That statement can be made about any vulnerability whatsoever. The merit of any mitigation can only be determined by a cost/benefit analysis that takes into account the potential impact of the vulnerability as well as the very real costs of mitigating it. > Yes, if they are left alone, it is the "e…

> Not a single one of these vulnerabilities has been used to cause any measurable damage anywhere that we know of, whereas the mitigations deployed have significant costs that everyone must pay. That's like saying: "nobody was drowned that we know of, whereas there was a significant cost to building the dam that everyone paid". (And also not dissimilar to arguments about doing no major industry/lifestyle changes rega…

> The difficulty of exploiting also gave some leeway to deploying those mitigations.

That's putting it lightly. Exploiting Spectre to get private data is difficult. Turning that into a privilege escalation is exponentially harder, so any "hack em all" exploit on hundreds of millions of devices would have needed an entirely unrelated mechanism for spreading.

Re: Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time

#249

Post by h1d »

keldaris wrote: post #132
spamizbad wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Anandtech. I feel like the entire "PC enthusiast" review space has dropped the ball on hardware vulnerabilities. Reevaluating performance between microcode and OS patches is an afterthought, and when a new CPU hits the market the numbers are presented without the obvious disclaimer that these performance gains may evaporate within months. Some even perpetuate the "only relevant to datacenter" myth despi…

I'm glad the PC enthusiast space hasn't succumbed to the wild hysteria caused elsewhere by the side channel issues. It's tiresome to see every new variation people come up with reported as a new apocalypse all over again. Half the reason I still pay attention is to find if there's a new Linux boot switch I need to turn on to disable some new performance regression. Even though I'm personally in the fortunate position…

> there still hasn't been a single case of anyone successfully using these vulnerabilities to productive ends in the wild that I know of

Why would the attackers let people know they've successfully exploited?

Re: Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time

#250

Post by wtallis »

consp wrote: post #245
wtallis wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perk of being able to test on Linux is that it's much easier to fully automate testing. Unfortunately, their analysis tends to be shallow.

Their audience is not mainstream but enthousiast And professionals. They do not provide in depth analysis since they probably know the reader can do that for themselves.

That may have been true at one time, but the class of people who would consider themselves to be enthusiasts has broadened well beyond the class of people who can accurately judge how their workload corresponds to the benchmark results they're reading. The recent improvements in the Linux gaming situation have been a big contributor and has undoubtedly skewed the Phoronix audience.
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