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The U.S. just had the most Q1 layoffs in a decade

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Re: The U.S. just had the most Q1 layoffs in a decade

#241
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If all the money from the passively managed funds just stays put, will the stocks basically not take much of a hit? The stocks will still take a hit, as we saw in the case of 2008 almost everyone loses money in a market-wide drop. Many active traders went bankrupt as well, the S&P500 lost 50% of its value but didn't go to 0. > Of course if it gets bad enough for companies to go broke, that could go wrong for the pa…

so the difference I thought there might be now, as compared to 2008 is the percentage of funds that are passively managed. If a proportionately smaller percentage of stockholders are selling then it seems possible/likely that any price swing will be smaller. One example of this "stock markets not reacting to external events" that seems to fit the trend is, to me , the robustness of the FTSE100 since the Brexit vote.…

I suspected your hypothesis was correct, that as the percentage of passive funds grows the pricing information of each stock would decrease. Then the question becomes, where are we in terms of what percentage trades are done as a passive investment vs an active investment.

Luckily I was able to find an excellent resource that dives into the exact questions we're discussing: https://www.bis.org/publ/qtrpdf/r_qt1803j.htm

It also makes a note that a lot of active investors allocate funds into a weighted index basket to better match index returns, so it could be that both active and passive funds are contributing to the same price insensitivity.

As a final supplemental to the paper given above I also looked at the PE ratio of the S&P500 per year: https://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-pe-ratio/table/by-year

One thing I would also expect is that as passive investing becomes a larger and larger part of the market we should also see the PE ratio rise.

I found a site that gives the PE by year (https://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-pe-ratio/table/by-year) and calculated the following (2019 estimates removed).

For all the years 1871 to present: AVG. 15.7 Median. 14.775 STD Dev. 7.25

For 1980 to present: AVG. 20.72 Median. 18.15 STD Dev. 11.18

PE ratio for 2018 was 24.97, which is very high for all of history but seems reasonable for 1980 to today.

Re: The U.S. just had the most Q1 layoffs in a decade

#242
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market was posting all time highs until a few months before the DotCom bust?

More relevant, but that isn't enough. The market was also posting all time highs in 2012, 2013, 2014... If you want a simple proxy, looking at the S&P 500 P/E ratio is a slightly better metric[0]. It's still not the same as explaining the mechanism through which the next recession will occur, but then again if you could explain it a priori, you'd be a billionaire. __________ [0] https://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-pe-rati…

Right. I see what you mean. Actually, I mostly only pay attention to the Shiller P/E - which is a bit high at the moment.

Re: The U.S. just had the most Q1 layoffs in a decade

#243
post #22

So basically the fear of recession may trigger a recession? Laying off, cutting spending and thus cascading economic contraction? Don’t think that would be a liquidity trap, but this type of recession always makes me think of Krugmans Baby-Sitting COOP model: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Babysitting_Co-...

Have you watched Sneakers?
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