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Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

abc.net.au

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Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#241

Post by mikro2nd »

oedmarap wrote: post #85

The three areas of contention in the bill: > A technical assistance request (TAR): Police ask a company to "voluntarily" help, such as give technical details about the development of a new online service. > A technical assistance notice (TAN): A company is required to give assistance. For example, if they can decrypt a specific communication, they must or face fines. > A technical capability notice (TCN): The company…

Thought experiment: Company gets served with a TCN. They task Jolene (Snr Programmer) to implement the backdoor. She does so in a way that spews information far and wide in a highly visible manner. What are the consequences for Jolene and/or the company, especially when the spooks cry foul and Jolene's lawyer/Company replies with something along the lines of "I guess she's just incompetent and did a bad job. Sorry. But we did comply with your TCN."

Does this law actually address such a scenario?

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#242

Post by geggam »

krapp wrote: post #239
geggam wrote: post #236

Good thing those folks in Australia have retained the ability to fight their govt via the right to bear arms.... right ?

> Good thing those folks in Australia have retained the ability to fight their govt via the right to bear arms.... right ? Why would violence be an appropriate response by Australians to disagreements with their country's laws? For that matter, given how many Americans disagree with their own country's governance, shouldn't the Tree of Liberty be soaked in the blood of tyrants and patriots by now? Or is the 2A crowd…

Question : What do the unarmed people do

Answer : Get in the train to the gas chamber

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#243

Post by GoblinSlayer »

bad_user wrote: post #188
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, and it's probably worth noting that you need not even be an Australian citizen to be covered, you simply need to have users in Australia. Of course, whether Australia can enforce these laws against non-citizens is another matter. However, this legislation was specifically put together with co-operation of all members of the five eyes, so there's a reasonable possibility of extradition. The Department of Home Affa…

You can't force non-citizens, obviously, since non-citizens are not under Australian jurisdiction. If they could, then this would create a problem of national security for other countries. But yes, the Five Eyes countries can use Australia for their wiretapping.

Jurisdiction sets no limits to itself, but to other jurisdictions. Australia can request extradition of anyone from anywhere, then it's up to that jurisdiction to decide whether to comply, which may or may not be situational. If the country believes it's a problem, then it would deny the request.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#244

Post by arminiusreturns »

nradov wrote: post #137
dragonwriter wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've also been around for longer than anyone else with a modern democracy No, we haven't. In fact, we copied it largely from the UK. (We didn't like the fact that as a colony we didn't get representation in the national legislature or the full range of rights citizens in the UK itself had, but, hey, the US does the same thing. Initially, and still partially, even to it's capital district . We've got the oldest sur…

When the US Constitution was adopted the UK monarch still had enough power that it couldn't reasonably be considered a democracy. The exact point when the UK became a modern democracy is open to debate as power gradually devolved from the monarch to Parliament, but US democracy has absolutely been around longer. There's no legitimate historical debate on that. And very little of the US governmental system was copied…

Yeah, Madison researched every form of government in history, including native American government systems, as the backdrop for his constitutional work. To say we just copied the UK is not a true assessment in any sense.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#245

Post by geggam »

krapp wrote: post #239
geggam wrote: post #236

Good thing those folks in Australia have retained the ability to fight their govt via the right to bear arms.... right ?

> Good thing those folks in Australia have retained the ability to fight their govt via the right to bear arms.... right ? Why would violence be an appropriate response by Australians to disagreements with their country's laws? For that matter, given how many Americans disagree with their own country's governance, shouldn't the Tree of Liberty be soaked in the blood of tyrants and patriots by now? Or is the 2A crowd…

PS .. the govts response to your disagreement with the law is violence. Pretending otherwise is silly.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#246

Post by coldcode »

My employer (S&P 100 sized) is rapidly deciding to move away from all Atlassian products including Jira. If enough people stop doing business with Australian tech companies, this law will likely be punted. Money talks, politicians run.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#247

Post by g45y45 »

chris_wot wrote: post #205
Jedi72 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One more piece of Anecdata, Im an Australian who has decided to go for US citizenship, for several reasons but all basically due to a continuous disregard for personal liberties by our government. Australians love being told what to do, seems like 90% of the population are very satisfied to be servants of the ruling class and aspire to nothing else. Edit: I replied to the wrong comment, meant to reply to the one abov…

Good luck getting health care.

Any australian working in the US that is able to obtain PR or citizenship likely has a well paid job that provides health insurance. While I feel for the folks in the US without coverage, lack of access to affordable health care does not really apply to employed, skilled immigrants. In my experience US health care is the best on the planet, its also the most expensive.

From my perspective, US health care is way above the quality of healthcare in Australia. Price, not so much...

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#248

Post by krapp »

geggam wrote: post #245
krapp wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good thing those folks in Australia have retained the ability to fight their govt via the right to bear arms.... right ? Why would violence be an appropriate response by Australians to disagreements with their country's laws? For that matter, given how many Americans disagree with their own country's governance, shouldn't the Tree of Liberty be soaked in the blood of tyrants and patriots by now? Or is the 2A crowd…

PS .. the govts response to your disagreement with the law is violence. Pretending otherwise is silly.

All governments, regardless of their nature, all civil societies and all bodies of law, from the hardest fascist dictatorships to the freest democracies, claim legitimacy by and execute enforcement through a monopoly on violence.

Pretending the US is any different in this regard is silly.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#249

Post by geggam »

krapp wrote: post #248
geggam wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS .. the govts response to your disagreement with the law is violence. Pretending otherwise is silly.

All governments, regardless of their nature, all civil societies and all bodies of law, from the hardest fascist dictatorships to the freest democracies, claim legitimacy by and execute enforcement through a monopoly on violence. Pretending the US is any different in this regard is silly.

govt in the US does not have a monopoly on violence... they want you to think they do ;)

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#250

Post by zerotolerance »

mcv wrote: post #201
jeremija wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly would this work? Let's say I have been coerced into making a back door, and my company has a policy of enforcing code reviews for every project. Surely, somebody would notice? Or would they count on me to do my best to obfuscate the back door? What if I "don't know" anything about obfuscation?

Good question. I think nobody knows. Most likely what happens is: * You make the change * You report back that you made the change and it's now pending in code review * Your change gets rejected in code review * Australia tells you to make the change and circumvent code review * You tell them you have no way to do that; every change goes through code review * Australia wants to know who reviews your code, and if your…

More likely:

* You make the change.

* Your peer green lights the change because they have also been independently compelled by the government.

* You and your peer never talk about it again.

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