"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid" --Einstein
FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
241–250 of 321 posts
Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
#242This might be more overt than the usual form, but how does this differ from donating a new building, department, or scholarship fund and subsequently getting your kid in? My mother did well in the Masters program at Stanford and I would have likely gotten in if she donated a couple million dollars but she didn’t and I didn’t (despite getting an invitation a year after accepting enrollment at another university). It’s…
Donating a building is a payment to the university . The university then gets to decide to admit your child in return. It may not be meritocratic, but it's not corrupt (except perhaps insofar as by pretending the exchange is a donation, the university and donor manage to cheat the taxman). The donor is simply paying the university to provide a service that they have every right to offer for money. It also benefits ot…
These universities publicly portray their admissions process as meritocratic. They go out of their way to dispel the notion that buying your way in is officially an option. That it IS an option, in spite of their assurances, is corruption in my book, regardless of whether or not it's an open secret.
Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It also benefits other students, which is why the universities take the deals in the first place. This is a little overgenerous. > In this case, we're talking about bribery of specific employees to act against the interests of their employer. That's simply corruption. Perhaps. What crime is it? I went and looked at the charges that were filed, here: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admis... (K…
> It doesn't look to me like paying an admissions officer to admit your child is a crime at all. I have not had a chance yet to look properly at the case, but I'd assumed the "fraud" charges are for precisely the act of paying an admissions officer to admit a child. Do you have reason to think that's not the case? > bribing a maitre'd to seat you more quickly is bribing a specific employee to act against the interest…
>> bribing a maitre'd to seat you more quickly is bribing a specific employee to act against the interests of his employer, but it's not a crime
> It's petty enough you wouldn't expect anyone to be prosecuted over it, but are you sure it's not a crime?
It looks like the legal status of commercial bribery (no involvement of a public official) in the United States, while often illegal, is not always clear-cut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_bribery
Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
#244So you let in people with dubious qualification that wouldn’t have met the entry requirements. Yet they seem to graduate from these schools. Therefore curriculum must be simple enough that even less qualified|gifted|hardworking can pass. How does that make those graduates feel that got in legit, and worked hard for their degrees?
As a side note - somehow this topic and the wrong it represents to me makes me want to cry for mob justice.
Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
#245So you let in people with dubious qualification that wouldn’t have met the entry requirements. Yet they seem to graduate from these schools. Therefore curriculum must be simple enough that even less qualified|gifted|hardworking can pass. How does that make those graduates feel that got in legit, and worked hard for their degrees? As a side note - somehow this topic and the wrong it represents to me makes me want to c…
I think this is also a great argument for making prestige a low priority in selection.
Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anecdata: In my extended family, we have some members with a fair bit of 'bread'. These family members met at a somewhat known (yet small-ish) college and really loved the place and all the memories they had there. They donated a lot of money over the years and, yes, had a building named after them. When it came time for their daughter to apply to college, the choice was obvious. However, the daughter was rejected ou…
When I hear stuff like this I wonder what in the hell could have been so great about their experience that they'd want to do something like that. It makes me wonder what I missed out on in college that I don't feel the same way. Did I just by chance happen to not go to some meeting or join some club that would have changed everything?
It's the only instance I can think of where an organization will call you up to donate money while you still owe them money.
Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
#247Those with money can always find a way to gain advantage.
So if you have Private universities, those with means will find ways to game the system. And they will gain opportunity inequality over those that do not have the means.
Stated differently, having unequal education institutions means that those that are richer will always be at an advantage to getting in the better institutions and long term contribute to opportunity inequality.
Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
#248Certainly, people do at least some times give money to universities thinking they will get something out of it, like a kid being admitted. You know in closed doors it is discussed explicitly, and the fund raisers at the universities must be trying to skirt the legal limits. A bunch of them must be wandering if they are next or were wiretapped talking to the guilty ones here.
Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
#249It doesn't seem fare that it's okay to donate millions of dollars to the university without a hope you get something like you kid in and it's not a crime (I don't care that it's an institution and not a person, you can get something).
Most programmers think we are in a meritocratic society and we all got to our positions based solely on raw ability, including me. Probably we are full of it. :-) I'm from a small town in the south, but my dad worked as an engineer at IBM. No doubt I was helped because I was around engineers, we talked about the world, and I knew I could probably make it there too. And he had money to help me in college.
Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of them was struggling and needed help to actually fill out the application form. Someone ended up doing it for her. If you're not smart enough to fill out a form - imagine how you'll go during study.
Or if you end up with them as an assigned lab partner or group project member.
in my experience these types tend to paper over any hard feelings with teammates with expensive gifts/trips