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Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

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Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#241

Post by coredog64 »

cletus wrote: post #34

In Australia the Leftist government of Gough Whitlam introduced health-coverage-for-all in 1975 with a scheme called Medibank. In 1984 after a couple of governments, Bob Hawke's Leftist government created the Medicare scheme (Medibank became a government provider of private health insurance), which exists to this day. The most interesting stat I ever heard about Medicare was this: prior to Medicare the number one cau…

A fair chunk of what we in the US would consider “medical bankruptcy” is not the bills, but a consequence of chronic illness. If I’m living paycheck to paycheck, any disruption is going to hurt. That could be unpaid leave, but it could also be disability insurance that doesn’t replace 100% of your income. Regardless of how health insurance is paid for, those are going to happen.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#242

Post by DanBC »

chimeracoder wrote: post #169
flexie wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the essence of this: In the developed world, this is all but a US specific issue. Cancer and other life threatening diseases rarely bankrupt Europeans, Canadians, Australians, Kiwis, Japanese etc.

> Cancer and other life threatening diseases rarely bankrupt Europeans, Canadians, Australians, Kiwis, Japanese etc. Sure, but they're also dramatically less likely to survive the cancer than Americans are at a population level. There have been multiple long-term studies on cancer survival rates that have demonstrated this.

You've failed to correct for over-testing, over-diagnosis, and over-treatment which all cause harm.

It's worrying that the US places so much emphasis on 5 year survival rates, and not on eg all cause mortality.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#243

Post by 01100011 »

vamos_davai wrote: post #4

It's such an absurd expense that I wonder if I get diagnosed with cancer, I would just deny treatment, accept death, and hand my assets to loved ones. Not sure if anyone else thinks the same way.

I have two friends who have survived cancer. Both of them have said that they would skip treatment if they could relive the experience. I lost another friend to an agonizing one year battle with glioblastoma.

If I ever receive a cancer diagnosis it will probably be the end of me. I have great life insurance and my survivors will be well taken care of. Even with the modern, immune-based chemo(which my friend had for melanoma), there are severe and permanent side-effects. After watching my friend with GBM die, I realized the medical industry is more than happy to take any money you have even if there is no chance they can help.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#244

Post by bluesroo »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #187
lenticular wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with insurance, folks often wind up with six figures of bills out of pocket treating cancer. That's a huge amount for the even most frugal of the lower or middle class.

When my son was born he fit in my hand and spent his first three months in NICU. I guess the nurses thought his survival was questionable so they entered in his name into the computer as “Baby Boy”. A few months later I started getting bills (eventually around $3 million) because there was nobody named “Baby Boy” on my insurance. Calling the insurance to try and correct was a nightmare - wait on hold for an hour, get…

As someone who works in healthcare software, I wouldn't interpret "Baby Boy" that way. Different hospitals process information in different ways and it is very common for newborns to all be entered under the same, generic name. Sometimes different departments within the same hospital have different systems, especially as they get more specialized (see: NICU). Maybe the birth name you chose got entered in one place and not the other.

Just thought I'd shed some light on the issue.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#245

Post by bluesroo »

madengr wrote: post #202
shereadsthenews wrote: post #43

I'd like to know where the patient with the $870 MRI bill was seen. My last MRI was billed at over $7500. Before I started treatment for my brain tumor I got divorced for purely financial reasons and gave all my remaining money to my children. USA is so fucked.

Other than cash, how do you give money over $15k without being nailed by the gift tax? Keeping as much money in retirement savings seems wise as those are exempt from liens.

On top of the yearly exemption, you have a lifetime exemption in the US of $11.18M.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#246

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

vamos_davai wrote: post #4

It's such an absurd expense that I wonder if I get diagnosed with cancer, I would just deny treatment, accept death, and hand my assets to loved ones. Not sure if anyone else thinks the same way.

That's any easy statement to make when being diagnosed with cancer is some small probability potential future event.

Not that I really disagree with the sentiment, but I find it difficult to judge people actually staring death in the face based on my comfortable position of, well, not.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#247

Post by 01100011 »

shereadsthenews wrote: post #43

I'd like to know where the patient with the $870 MRI bill was seen. My last MRI was billed at over $7500. Before I started treatment for my brain tumor I got divorced for purely financial reasons and gave all my remaining money to my children. USA is so fucked.

Some of the cost difference is likely due to different procedures and materials(i.e. contrast agents).

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#248

Post by rtkwe »

sbov wrote: post #203
tmaly wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still cannot get a price list of medical procedures in the US thanks to the antitrust exemption provided in McCarran-Ferguson Antitrust Act of 1945. I think repealing this would be a good start. All other industries are required to provide price lists. My friend went to the ER recently for a sprained thumb. They wrapped it in some bandage and he got a bill for $14,000. His insurance is covering 80% but he is still…

Don't go to the ER for a sprained thumb. Unless its an actual emergency, go to urgent care. I live in a pretty expensive area of California and they still only charge $95 per person they see. And our insurance covers it completely. And rightly so, they would much prefer a $95 bill to a $14,000 one. With kids we go a couple times per year. They definitely have saved us a lot of money and time.

As other have said urgent care isn't everywhere and closes so it's not entirely by choice that people wind up in the emergency room for non emergency things. Beyond that it's hard to know sometimes what's emergency and what isn't until you have a doctor look at what's happening.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#249

Post by deogeo »

JamesBarney wrote: post #65
cletus wrote: post #34

In Australia the Leftist government of Gough Whitlam introduced health-coverage-for-all in 1975 with a scheme called Medibank. In 1984 after a couple of governments, Bob Hawke's Leftist government created the Medicare scheme (Medibank became a government provider of private health insurance), which exists to this day. The most interesting stat I ever heard about Medicare was this: prior to Medicare the number one cau…

I'm all for universal coverage too. But reducing the profits of pharmaceutical companies well reduce the money they have for r&d dramatically. This will slow down the speed of pharmaceutical development. So I think it needs to be paired with reforms to the FDA to reduce the go to market costs for drugs.

Going by this logic, is there a limit to how extortionate drug pricing can get? After all, some fraction will go towards R&D!

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#250

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

ZeroFries wrote: post #122
vamos_davai wrote: post #4

It's such an absurd expense that I wonder if I get diagnosed with cancer, I would just deny treatment, accept death, and hand my assets to loved ones. Not sure if anyone else thinks the same way.

I think that route is unpopular because we no longer have a sane relationship with death as a society. Religion, at least in theory, should help, but rates are declining there too. We'll pay any price to avoid the inevitable. We'll spend hundreds of thousands to get one more year of poor quality time with family, yet neglect to spend that time in better quality when health is taken for granted. If you had no family,…

When societies began moving on, philosophically, from dogmatic religions and into the current era of empiricism, we lost the ability to put death in context. Empiricism tells us that when you die, there is nothing, and the objectively rational thing to do is whatever it takes to live as long as possible. Empirical thought patterns tend towards extremes. What society needs to do, and possibly is in the process of doing, is recognizing empiricism as an incomplete model of reality. Hopefully that will lead us back towards a healthier relationship with our mortality.
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