US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians • Hacker News Board

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#241

Post by benrbray » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 4:02 AM UTC

kgwxd wrote: post #90

I don't understand why anyone ever though walkways, bikeways and driveways should intersect without strict rights-of-way, or run parallel without actual barriers between them. In low traffic areas, fine, practicality wins, but the 8-lane roads from a decade ago have turned into 8-lanes with motorcycle lanes between them (sometimes only imaginary, but still legally real), bike lanes (sometimes not as the outer-most la…

What I find absolutely INSANE about American traffic signals is that they're built on the assumption that drivers will turn-on-red while the pedestrian walk signal is active.

This causes so many unnecessary conflicts. At best, you get a nasty look from an impatient right-turner who has to slam their brakes to avoid hitting you. At worst, you get killed for obeying a traffic signal.

Similar with left turning. Why don't all high-volume roads have dedicated left turn arrows? If a driver misjudges the speed of the next car, you can bet they'll choose to follow through with the turn and hit a pedestrian rather than getting hit by a car going through a green light.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#242

Post by simplyluke » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

The article only gives a passing mention to distracted driving but I really think it's what's driving the dramatic increases over the past decade much more so than vehicle design or social attitudes. Around 6 months ago I started driving a truck, offering a much higher vantage, sitting in traffic I'd say > 60% of people are actively on their phones at any given time. It's an epidemic and I'm not sure what the fix is - maybe treating it more like DUIs?

The city of Austin just had a bus driver kill a cyclist a few weeks ago who was later found to have been texting and driving a city bus.

We know that drivers on phones rely primarily on their peripheral vision to spot other vehicles, but it's very easy for a pedestrian or cyclist to slip through that.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#243

Post by killjoywashere » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 8:26 AM UTC

I was the co-captain of my college cycling team. I still find certain open roads in Southern California reasonable, but I find myself more and more concerned about the other traffic on the road. I am a physician in no small part because I got hit by a car while riding my bike, and my surgeon was exceptionally gracious, letting me scrub in on surgeries during my convalescence.*

------

* Unrelated footnote: This was before HIPAA. I very much wonder if my kids would be afforded the same opportunity today.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#244

Post by cylinder » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:44 AM UTC

sethhochberg wrote: post #24

jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

Florida is a perfect storm of retirees who should have had their licenses revoked years ago, car-centric exurban non-planning, big trucks as culture, and weather so hot and prone to unexpected storms that few people cycle for anything other than recreation and thus most riders are seen as ridiculous wannabe racers, or just some drunk who lost their drivers' license. Everything is spread out and connected by 6-lane di…

Texas is the same or worse. Much of the postWW2 US is the same actually.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#245

Post by upofadown » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 10:37 AM UTC

magduf wrote: post #234

upofadown wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it does matter who is right when determining who is wrong...

That only helps in punishing the wrongdoer. If you can avoid being a victim in the first place, yes, the wrongdoer will get away with doing something wrong (though much less wrong than if you succeeded in becoming a victim; e.g., he's guilty of running a red light rather than running a red light and causing a crash that resulted in someone's death), but the price you pay for making the wrongdoer guilty of a greater c…

In the end though, Homer Simpson is still a bad safety supervisor. Just telling people to "Safen up!" is pointless and in this case is a way of distracting from an important truth ... that the problem here is cars and their drivers, not the pedestrians and cyclists. The legend of the reckless everyone else but drivers is less accepted these days and people tend to get called on it.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#246

Post by FloNeu » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 1:07 PM UTC

More dangerous... god, better not set a foot into this country again :)

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#247

Post by magduf » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

upofadown wrote: post #245

magduf wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only helps in punishing the wrongdoer. If you can avoid being a victim in the first place, yes, the wrongdoer will get away with doing something wrong (though much less wrong than if you succeeded in becoming a victim; e.g., he's guilty of running a red light rather than running a red light and causing a crash that resulted in someone's death), but the price you pay for making the wrongdoer guilty of a greater c…

In the end though, Homer Simpson is still a bad safety supervisor. Just telling people to "Safen up!" is pointless and in this case is a way of distracting from an important truth ... that the problem here is cars and their drivers, not the pedestrians and cyclists. The legend of the reckless everyone else but drivers is less accepted these days and people tend to get called on it.

I'm not disagreeing that cars and their drivers are the real problem, but this whole thread is about someone saying that pedestrians and cyclists need to watch out for cars, even if they're in the right, and someone else calling this "victim blaming". Call it what you want, but it doesn't matter if you were completely within the law when a car hits and kills you: you're still dead!!! Getting on some high horse about the car driver being "wrong" isn't going to bring the pedestrian back to life.

And sure, maybe (maybe) the legal system will penalize the driver, but is it going to change anything? No, because our society has decided that cars are more important and we're not going to curtail our usage of cars at all, and accidents like this are unavoidable because of the nature of cars and ever-increasing traffic. If we built more trains/subways to take the load off the roads, we really could reduce the cyclist/pedestrian fatalities, but the US isn't going to do that; it's proven that it's completely incapable of building new public-transit infrastructure.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#248

Post by magduf » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

loeg wrote: post #202

magduf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. Sorry if this sounds rude, but this was a surprise to you? I thought everyone in Europe realized how bicycle/pedestrial-hostile US cities are. Did you not come here first to check things out before committing to a cross-Atlantic move? And seriously, Sweden is one of the top countries on the quality-of-life indices…

The US is a huge country and has a broad range of pedestrian/cycle-friendly infrastructure — Florida in particular is among the worst.

I think you're really whitewashing things. A better description would be that the US is a huge country with a few, select metro areas that are pedestrian/cycle-friendly (and even then, only in certain parts), while the vast majority of the country is very unfriendly to them.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#249

Post by jgys » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #247

upofadown wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end though, Homer Simpson is still a bad safety supervisor. Just telling people to "Safen up!" is pointless and in this case is a way of distracting from an important truth ... that the problem here is cars and their drivers, not the pedestrians and cyclists. The legend of the reckless everyone else but drivers is less accepted these days and people tend to get called on it.

I'm not disagreeing that cars and their drivers are the real problem, but this whole thread is about someone saying that pedestrians and cyclists need to watch out for cars, even if they're in the right, and someone else calling this "victim blaming". Call it what you want, but it doesn't matter if you were completely within the law when a car hits and kills you: you're still dead!!! Getting on some high horse about…

> And sure, maybe (maybe) the legal system will penalize the driver, but is it going to change anything? No, because our society has decided that cars are more important and we're not going to curtail our usage of cars at all, and accidents like this are unavoidable because of the nature of cars and ever-increasing traffic.

Yes, this is the problem that is being discussed -- and the problem that we really need to solve, for a host of reasons ranging from public health to climate stability -- and it is a distraction from discussions of this problem (and also, condescending and unnecessary advice) to suggest that the victims of reckless motorists try harder to not be victims.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#250

Post by jessaustin » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #48

chasd00 wrote: post #21

heh a couple summer's ago in Dallas i got hit by a police officer while crossing the street. Ironically, while he was on his cell phone. I had to do the whole ninja-roll thing over the hood and on to the pavement. Came out of it with only a sore wrist and a funny story for the conference call i was late to. a buddy of mine grabbed a guy and pulled him out of the way of a city bus. The guy had the light to cross and t…

Here's the thing drivers - if you turn right and don't check over your right shoulder for the bike or pedestrian , then one day you will be that guy that kills somebody. Its just a matter of time. Always, always glance over your right shoulder when turning right.

Urban cyclists in USA learn to be hypersensitive to this situation. If the car is approaching the intersection and does anything to make a turn seem possible, don't pass on the right. Take the lane behind the car and be ready to pass on the left, between lanes. Lane-splitting by a cyclist is a totally normal maneuver. In stopped traffic, it is strictly better than riding on the right. In slowly-moving traffic, it's often better.