Whitespace killed an enterprise app • Hacker News Board

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#241

Post by tabtab » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

mattkevan wrote: post #215

tabtab wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best approach is to watch them do their work and ask a lot of questions. For example, "Why did you have to leave this screen to go find X?"

'Why?' is a very powerful question. A few months ago I heard a talk by the chief product manager at a photo album printing company where he talked about an in-depth series of customer interviews they'd recently conducted. His advice was to keep asking why until you get to the root of why someone did something. However, if the answer you reach 'Because I don't want to die alone', then you've gone too far...

Or the answer is, "Because the last guy who didn't do X got fired."

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#242

Post by tabtab » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

beamatronic wrote: post #198

erikpukinskis wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can’t just ask a user “how could this screen work better” Why would you ask that anyway? You've already assumed the problem and solution at that point. You ask how it's going, very generally and let the conversation lead you to their pain points. You don't ask about the UI, which they are not an authority on. You ask about their subjective experience, which they are.

Perhaps you could measure the user instead, as in time taken to complete tasks.

If you use a stopwatch or equivalent, the user may get weirded out. Maybe do a rough-count in your mind and take a note, but to emphasize time above other factors may be a mistake, except for special domains or circumstances.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#243

Post by butisaidsudo » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #177

manyxcxi wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Watch them work. This x1000! I took on a freelance project for a heavy machinery hauling company. They were a year into transitioning away from some customized off the shelf Enterprise scheduling and dispatch system into some custom built software by an “Enterprise” consulting company. They were originally bringing me in to audit what the team that was building it but that pretty much changed on the day I submitted…

> it is still one of my proudest projects even though it was one of the least “sexy” I’ve ever done. I think one of the most valuable thing software engineers can do for themselves in some circumstances is attempt to shift perspective towards assessing projects by how many people they help and how. The most rewarding projects I can think of are the ones where a day or two after rolling them out, I'm contacted by a fe…

My wife is a genetic counsellor, and as part of her work she regular has to use this one formula to calculate the probability of this one genetic condition I can't quite recall.

Because of the complexity and the importance of getting it right, it took her around 10-15 minutes every time she needed to use it. She, and her colleagues, are pretty much luddites so a basic calculator was their only tool.

I spent 10 minutes writing the formula in javascript, dropping it an html file, and running a few test.

She absolutely loved it, and shared it with the rest of the staff. Apparently some counsellors at another clinic heard about it and requested it as well. Someone thanked me at her Christmas staff party.

In terms of effort to build vs. hours saved and end user appreciation, I don't think I'll ever top it.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#244

Post by xbryanx » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

I think about this every time I watch some physician friends using Epic or any Electronic Health Records system. Those things are dense as hell and packed full of data and utility. You won't see a bit of wasted space. Different problems require different solutions.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#245

Post by rkho » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

> It used progressive disclosure to hide presumably insignificant information.

This is the line that shocked me the most, emphasis on the word presumably. It comes off as a decision being made without any sort of objective data behind it.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#246

Post by ilovecaching » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:39 PM UTC

This person has it all wrong. If there are too many nobs and too much data for a person to comprehend, then it means you need more automation. The people who complained about the GUI are the people who will probably lose their jobs in the next decade to machine learning.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#247

Post by delecti » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #40

stronglikedan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, why "ud"? It seems like any two letter subdomain works in the same way.

Honestly, I think that was just one I bookmarked at some point and there it is in my history ;)

Other than "np", as in "np.reddit.com", which is used for "no-participation mode", I think the other two-letter sub-domains are used for language codes. I think at one point in reddit's history doing things like de.reddit.com could give a german site, and so on. I'm not sure what "ud" would refer to, but I assume it's similar.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#248

Post by Mikerad1979 » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

mattkevan wrote: post #215

tabtab wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best approach is to watch them do their work and ask a lot of questions. For example, "Why did you have to leave this screen to go find X?"

'Why?' is a very powerful question. A few months ago I heard a talk by the chief product manager at a photo album printing company where he talked about an in-depth series of customer interviews they'd recently conducted. His advice was to keep asking why until you get to the root of why someone did something. However, if the answer you reach 'Because I don't want to die alone', then you've gone too far...

This technique is called a 5-Why in lean manufacturing. Useful tool in digging into a root cause, and helps people think deeply about the causes of issues that are not inherently obvious.

Also, 5 is just the "suggested" number. More or less may be needed. If you reach 'Because I don't want to die alone' in 3 whys, probably no need to try for 5...

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#249

Post by z3t4 » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:49 PM UTC

There are tradeoffs when designing for first time use vs repeated use. And also between simple and powerful. Like a GUI vs a Terminal. Or keyboard shortcuts vs Menu. A user configurator vs a cad program. Or when it comes to game design - first time vs replay vs endgame. Maybe Ux designers can be inspired by games - designed for engame (multiplayer) but with campaigns with a progressive difficulty ...

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#250

Post by crowbahr » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #157

pantalaimon wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that the new interface can take seconds to load whereas the old one was instant. How is this an improvement?

It's better for them, not necessarily for you. Reddit wants lots of growth (they are taking new money now I think) and that means lots of new users that don't know the old UI. The new one is designed with those users in mind, not ones that know the site inside and out already.

It's sanding down a barrier to entry that was already fairly low, in my opinion. They haven't really made it much lower either.

Integrating RES into the main site would've been most of what they needed to get going...