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The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

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Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#241

Post by MagnumOpus »

kkarakk wrote: post #217
sirmarksalot wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Necessary but not sufficient.

what about jackie chan's life story screams luck and people handing him things coz he was handsome to you? literally all he did was hard work

The part that screams luck is that for every hard working Jackie Chan there are ten -- or more likely a hundred -- people just as talented and working just as hard, who didn't become multimillionaire A-list celebrities.

Which is why the parent poster said hard work is necessary but not sufficient.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#242

Post by the_af »

chaostheory wrote: post #230
the_af wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you made a mistake. No, I do not forgive you for jumping to conclusions, and no, I didn't give any opinion in my initial post or echo the main point of an article with many points. When asked, I told you what I found interesting about the article and whether I found the cost Jackie paid too high (I do). Did you even wonder whether I've read the autobiography the author of the piece is commenting on? (no, I have…

> and whether I found the cost Jackie paid too high (I do). Then I clearly didn't make a mistake. This is the article's core idea and I disagree with it for reasons that I've already outlined in my previous comments.

Yes you did, because that's not the article's core idea (which is more focused on Jackie's refusal to say more about his past hardships, what the article calls his "blindspot" [1]), and it says nothing about whether I agree with the article.

Did you wonder why I even felt the need to write a summary? Why would I need to, if one could simply just read TFA? It's because at the time I posted, most people were commenting stuff like "I love Jackie Chan's movies, Rush Hour is cool!", which seemed to me to be entirely off-topic and likely written by people who hadn't bothered to read the article. So I summarized one of the ideas of the article -- the one I thought was worth discussing -- in hopes of getting the discussion back on track.

I succeeded. I just didn't expect your extremely literal and hilariously childlike interpretation of my post.

[1] Please don't debate this point with me as if it was mine. I know it's confusing because the words are there in my post, but that's not magic: it's called "summarizing what someone else said" -- trust me! If you disagree with it, I don't know, write the author an angry email.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#243

Post by kkarakk »

jasonjei wrote: post #231
kkarakk wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm all for "exposing" how people really think but China is a country that literally disappears people, high profile internationally famous people like fan bingbing, for not paying their taxes. judicial process is almost a non-entity there if you anger the government.do you think chan has a choice in anything he says? his choices are to toe the government line or never go back to his homeland. do you also criticize t…

He does have a choice—and he lives in Hong Kong. There are those Hong Kong citizens that have expressed their free rights yet are not able to enter the Mainland. Here’s the HK newspaper view on him: https://m.scmp.com/culture/books/article/2176919/why-hypocri... This is about Jackie Chan. I’m afraid you’re presenting a strawmam’s argument with respect to what else the Mainland Chinese government has done—while you se…

haha yeah so jackie chan should risk his life,fame and possessions so westerners he cares nothing about can feel good about lambasting china

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#244

Post by chaostheory »

the_af wrote: post #242
chaostheory wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and whether I found the cost Jackie paid too high (I do). Then I clearly didn't make a mistake. This is the article's core idea and I disagree with it for reasons that I've already outlined in my previous comments.

Yes you did, because that's not the article's core idea (which is more focused on Jackie's refusal to say more about his past hardships, what the article calls his "blindspot" [1]), and it says nothing about whether I agree with the article . Did you wonder why I even felt the need to write a summary? Why would I need to, if one could simply just read TFA? It's because at the time I posted, most people were commentin…

> Did you wonder why I even felt the need to write a summary? Why would I need to, if one could simply just read TFA?

Unless you're a summary bot, most people inject their opinion when summarizing an article. When they disagree, they will dispute points in that summary. When there's no dispute, such as your case, it's implicit that you're agreeing with the article's core ideas that you've summarized. It's as obvious and routine as a rhetorical question.

ok, let's pretend you didn't agree with article. It doesn't take away from the fact that my comments just strongly disagreed with the idea of Jackie "paying too high a price for success", which what you've espoused in your comments. (It is still one of the core messages of the article, in addition to Jackie's subsequent 'apathy'.)

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#245

Post by the_af »

the_af wrote: post #242
chaostheory wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and whether I found the cost Jackie paid too high (I do). Then I clearly didn't make a mistake. This is the article's core idea and I disagree with it for reasons that I've already outlined in my previous comments.

Yes you did, because that's not the article's core idea (which is more focused on Jackie's refusal to say more about his past hardships, what the article calls his "blindspot" [1]), and it says nothing about whether I agree with the article . Did you wonder why I even felt the need to write a summary? Why would I need to, if one could simply just read TFA? It's because at the time I posted, most people were commentin…

@chaostheory

> Unless you're a summary bot, most people inject their opinion when summarizing an article.

That's not the purpose of a summary. My opinion is that it was "interesting" and wanted to move the conversation back on track, away from Jackie Chan's martial abilities and back on the subject of the submitted article.

> ok, let's pretend you didn't agree with article. It doesn't take away from the fact that my comments just strongly disagreed with the idea of Jackie "paying too high a price for success"

I've no problem with that. I can understand your disagreement. As I said, I agreed with parts of the article, disagreed with others, found other parts irrelevant, and found some interesting -- as in "meriting further discussion".

Do you see that I'm upset not about whether we disagree on Jackie Chan's life (why would that bother me?) but because you built a nice strawman, lumping my opinion with that of the author as if we were of a single mind, and proceeded to attack that? It's offensive and it's usually an underhanded debate tactic.

Had you answered "I disagree with the author because ", I wouldn't have had any problem. Instead, you wrote "I'm not sure what point you and the author are trying to make". I'm willing to believe that was a mistake, if you'll simply say "ok, I made a mistake. I was in disagreement with the author."

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#246

Post by chaostheory »

the_af wrote: post #245
the_af wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you did, because that's not the article's core idea (which is more focused on Jackie's refusal to say more about his past hardships, what the article calls his "blindspot" [1]), and it says nothing about whether I agree with the article . Did you wonder why I even felt the need to write a summary? Why would I need to, if one could simply just read TFA? It's because at the time I posted, most people were commentin…

@chaostheory > Unless you're a summary bot, most people inject their opinion when summarizing an article. That's not the purpose of a summary. My opinion is that it was "interesting" and wanted to move the conversation back on track, away from Jackie Chan's martial abilities and back on the subject of the submitted article. > ok, let's pretend you didn't agree with article. It doesn't take away from the fact that my…

> nstead, you wrote "I'm not sure what point you and the author are trying to make". I'm willing to believe that was a mistake, if you'll simply say "ok, I made a mistake. I was in disagreement with the author."

1. I am not mistaken. Your opinion of Jackie Chan "paying too high of a price" for his fame is an idea that the author shares. It is literally written throughout the article that you summarized. It's effectively part of your summary.

2. Even if the first point wasn't true, and you have the unlikely and uncommon habit of quoting things that you have no opinion over; it doesn't matter. I was still arguing against your opinion of Chan paying a high price for fame. Your focus on whether or not the author had the same idea serves as a distraction from you either not being able to come up with an effective counter argument, or maybe even changing your opinion since it seems like you are distancing yourself from it.

"I'm not sure what point you are trying to make"

Happy?

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#247

Post by [deleted] »

the_af wrote: post #242
chaostheory wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and whether I found the cost Jackie paid too high (I do). Then I clearly didn't make a mistake. This is the article's core idea and I disagree with it for reasons that I've already outlined in my previous comments.

Yes you did, because that's not the article's core idea (which is more focused on Jackie's refusal to say more about his past hardships, what the article calls his "blindspot" [1]), and it says nothing about whether I agree with the article . Did you wonder why I even felt the need to write a summary? Why would I need to, if one could simply just read TFA? It's because at the time I posted, most people were commentin…

[deleted]

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#248

Post by the_af »

chaostheory wrote: post #244
the_af wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you did, because that's not the article's core idea (which is more focused on Jackie's refusal to say more about his past hardships, what the article calls his "blindspot" [1]), and it says nothing about whether I agree with the article . Did you wonder why I even felt the need to write a summary? Why would I need to, if one could simply just read TFA? It's because at the time I posted, most people were commentin…

> Did you wonder why I even felt the need to write a summary? Why would I need to, if one could simply just read TFA? Unless you're a summary bot, most people inject their opinion when summarizing an article. When they disagree, they will dispute points in that summary. When there's no dispute, such as your case, it's implicit that you're agreeing with the article's core ideas that you've summarized. It's as obvious…

> "I'm not sure what point you are trying to make"

> Happy?

No, I'm not happy. Since I know you understand the definition of "summary" (and, if in doubt of why I felt the need to summarize, you had my explanation of the context a few posts above, and you consistently ignored it), I can only assume you're trolling.

> Your focus on whether or not the author had the same idea serves as a distraction from you either not being able to come up with an effective counter argument

A counterargument to what!? You're demented.

I'm upset I wasted my time with a troll. I wish there was a way to report you.

Goodbye.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#249

Post by chaostheory »

the_af wrote: post #248
chaostheory wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you wonder why I even felt the need to write a summary? Why would I need to, if one could simply just read TFA? Unless you're a summary bot, most people inject their opinion when summarizing an article. When they disagree, they will dispute points in that summary. When there's no dispute, such as your case, it's implicit that you're agreeing with the article's core ideas that you've summarized. It's as obvious…

> "I'm not sure what point you are trying to make" > Happy? No, I'm not happy. Since I know you understand the definition of "summary" (and, if in doubt of why I felt the need to summarize, you had my explanation of the context a few posts above, and you consistently ignored it), I can only assume you're trolling. > Your focus on whether or not the author had the same idea serves as a distraction from you either not…

> A counterargument to what!? You're demented.

My arguments against your opinion that Jack Chan paid too high of a cost for his success: "whether I found the cost Jackie paid too high (I do)." I've mentioned it in my last comment as well as previous ones. it also seems that you've mistakenly replied to my earlier comment which breaks the thread

> No, I'm not happy. Since I know you understand the definition of "summary"

The last lines of my previous comment just addressed your fixation that your opinion wasn't shared by the article, so I made a point of focusing on what you admitted was your opinion (even though the article does agree with it) i.e. I'm not talking to the author about his opinions. I'm talking to you about yours.

You accusing me of being a troll is just yet another distraction from the core idea in our debate. The irony with your accusation is that I stay focused in attacking your ideas, while you started attacking me as an individual

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#250

Post by vhjcvnnb »

jasonjei wrote: post #27

Jackie Chan, though, is an apologist for the Mainland government, and even suggested that Taiwan, perhaps (as of now) the only Chinese-speaking democracy, has “too much freedom.”

Jackie Chan says a lot of shit all the time. I wouldn’t take his words literally. He is known for spewing out random nonsense now and then base on anecdotal evidence. Hence the uneducated part.
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