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Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

nytimes.com

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Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#241

Post by orthecreedence »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #112
orthecreedence wrote: post #33

I'm torn about this. On the one hand, Patreon shouldn't have to do business with people they don't like. On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The biggest one for me in recent history was Cloudflare arbitrarily deciding to stop hosting the Daily Stormer. Sure, DS is vile, but at the point we start enforcing censorship on a whim instead of hardened polic…

>The biggest one for me in recent history was Cloudflare arbitrarily deciding to stop hosting the Daily Stormer. Sure, DS is vile, but at the point we start enforcing censorship on a whim instead of hardened policies that aren't selectively enforced, I think it becomes worrisome. In fairness, that was actually DS's fault. They went and said "everyone else has banned us, but cloudflare hasn't. Cloudflare agree with wh…

> once someone has 50% of the planet as a customer base, as facebook does, they're not a private company any more, they're a public utility

Thanks, that's a really interesting take on the problem, and I tend to agree. It seems that once something becomes infrastructure (however that would be defined...either by your 50% rule or something more nuanced) it becomes heavily regulated, or at least governed by the principals of net neutrality.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#242

Post by cc81 »

paulcole wrote: post #92

> Why are we giving companies and people the right to silence vast amounts of voices and opinions on random whims? This is not a new situation. But all of a sudden it’s a problem because it’s conservative white guys instead of women, LGBTQ people and people of color?

What older situations are you talking about?

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#243

Post by pbhjpbhj »

wildmusings wrote: post #228
joshuamorton wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But now you're changing the argument: that not only must you have free speech, but that others must assist you in getting compensated for your speech and to help you potentially subsist off of it. That's never been part of any conversation about free speech. (Even the broader non 1st amendment version). And it doesn't make sense. You can always take cash or check. The post office doesn't discriminate.

Thank you for mentioning the post office. The post office is a great example of a service that could just as well be private and should, in that case, still not be allowed to discriminate.

Please remember the www is international, "the post office" is highly ambiguous.

Also, just because something could be private doesn't mean it should be run for privatised gain. I'm pretty sure the UK post office was recently privatised.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#244

Post by EpicEng »

danso wrote: post #168
EpicEng wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see him throwing the slurs people in his stream are using back at them. >Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.” He's saying that these people are acting in exactly the manner they are accusing others of acting, and he's using their slurs to make the comparison.

Yeah no. > Maybe you’re just acting like a n____r, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.

You're uninformed.

The commenters said that "White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another". From what I can gather, he's not making that statement; he's throwing their own crap back at them. In other words "you people say that white people are better behaved than black people, but look at how you're acting at this very moment."

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#245

Post by PhasmaFelis »

monksy wrote: post #163
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not "fascism" or "trump" that we should be afraid of. If you don't have anything to fear from Trump, that's nice for you, but given that he's openly calling for me and people dear to me to have our civil rights revoked, it's pretty shitty of you to tell me that I shouldn't be afraid of him.

In America, we have 3 branches of government with checks and balances additionally we have very difficult to modify rights given in the constitution. Things are not likely to change.

Gay people weren't given the federal right to marry until three years ago. Trans people still don't have equal protection under the law. And none of the rights that do exist are enshrined in the Constitution at all.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#246

Post by astura »

aetherson wrote: post #111
losvedir wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or Visa likewise today -- it's understood that other people will use the same plastic to pay for things you morally disapprove of, just as they could use cash. But it's positioned as a neutral carrier, and nobody cares (I think). Heh, well I hope so. But that recent NYTimes story[0] about how mass shootings used guns and ammo bought with a credit card makes me unsure about that. I'd have thought using cash vs credi…

I was reading some tangential article the other day which suggested that porn services had difficulty with Visa not doing business with them.

American Express explicitly bans porn outright. It's not for some prudish reasons though, it's because porn has a very high fraud/chargeback rate.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#247

Post by cabalamat »

CM30 wrote: post #215
zamalek wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The government, soapboxes, homes and places of business that are happy to have them. Freedom of Speech is not the right to be heard. If people don't like what you have to say, or how you are saying it, they are free to walk away. If you don't like what someone is doing in your place of business, you can also throw…

The question is; where does it end? Sure, I guess you could say Patreon has the right to ban people from its service. But people have found its not easy or practical to compete with them. They've found everyone from their domain registrar to their website host to their payment processor refusing to do business with them. And at some point, that means it becomes virtually impossible to express yourself if your views a…

> No one wants to be a service or common carrier

Payment processing services such as PayPal and Visa absolutely should be common carriers, because of the great power they can have over people by denying them financial services. The SubscribeStar controversy being a good example.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#248

Post by dgudkov »

The missing question here -- why did Patreon do it? Is it because they are afraid of legal risk of not being able to defend themselves against a lawsuit? Or they are afraid of loss of revenue/capitalization if an online activist group launches a shame/smear campaign? Or it simply because it rubbed the wrong way someone in the company management?

Why did they do it?

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#249

Post by cabalamat »

PeterMikhailov wrote: post #227
CM30 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is; where does it end? Sure, I guess you could say Patreon has the right to ban people from its service. But people have found its not easy or practical to compete with them. They've found everyone from their domain registrar to their website host to their payment processor refusing to do business with them. And at some point, that means it becomes virtually impossible to express yourself if your views a…

I'm ok with the line being "dont host the Daily Stormer"

But that isn't the line, the line is don't be Sargon of Akkad.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#250

Post by rhegart »

This is such a biased article. The most important fact is purposefully omitted. This article makes it seem like Sargon purposefully used those racist statements in a racist context. He was using it as an analogy and against the alt-right. Lying by omission makes this entire article completely bogus. I hate when the fringe media does this in literally every article and I really hate it when the best papers do it and the NYtimes is unfortunately the best paper we have in my opinion. I would pull my subscription over something like this 5 years ago but now days everyone does this.
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