I'm sure this problem can be solved with blockchains ;)
Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
241–250 of 449 posts
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If I were the insurance companies, I'd be putting pressure on the car companies And also give car owners an incentive to keep their keys safer, given how many vehicles out there are vulnerable to this. Just fixing this for new cars is only half the solution. I remember back in the 80s my parents got a discount on their insurance for installing a third brake light in the back window of their old Camaro. If my insura…
Could simply putting the thing in a foil/metal lined drawer in your entryway do the trick?
I do exactly this. I lined a cookie tin with foil, and tested it by holding the closed box (with the keys inside) next to the car. It didn’t unlock. Then I opened the box, and it did unlock. The box has to be closed (lid fully on, no gaps) or the car will still unlock.
Of course this only foils overnight theft. I imagine it would be trivial for someone to follow me from a car park to a public location and sit next to me to get the key signal from my pocket.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#243That this vulnerability is being exploited in the wild isn't particularly new news is it? Perhaps it is the fact that I live in the Bay Area but I was walking with a home made Yagi (directional) antenna that I normally keep in the camper for picking up distant WiFi signals and the police noticed enough to stop and ask what was up. It does make me wonder if carrying around and SDR will get you in trouble at some point :-)
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
I used to have a numeric lock immobilizer on 3 vehicles starting way back in the early 90s. You had to dial in a 4-6 digit PIN code on a pin pad in the vehicle in order to enable the ignition. You'd need to rip the whole dash apart to enable the ignition to bypass it. Were these types of immobilizers never a thing here?
Car manufacturers have never put a lot of priority on security in the US. I once unlocked a car, got in, and started the ignition with my key before realizing that the reason the seat and mirrors felt weird was because it was not my car. I shut it off, exited the vehicle, re-locked it, and saw that my own car was actually the next one down the row. There are only so many combinations of pin heights in a car lock. I h…
American cars have always been notorious for this. You can unlock and start some American cars with a flathead screwdriver.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure if this is a joke about old keys being better, but I'd argue you could have the benefits of new keys and old keys combined if you just made it so that new keys have to be inserted into some compartment inside of cars, where they are authenticated by those cars. You can imagine a fob with a USB that has a different authentication code than the wireless one it sends out, and unless the USB is plugged into…
Does this not sound exactly like what I had back in the 90s where my physical key would need to be inserted to start the vehicle and to unlock I'd press the keyfob to activate the unlocking. I imagine an smartphone with touch sensor + car remote app would be even safer than what we have now.
The difference is that you can start up your engine (read: have AC on so that your car is the right temperature when you get to it) and also unlock the doors for others from far away
If that functionality was encapsulated on a smart phone, that would be fine too.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#246This happened to a family member of mine, here in Toronto. Lost their gorgeous M5. Their kid normally wakes up in the middle of the night, except this time, he freaked right out like he was scared. They were wondering what was going on with him, when one of the parents heard the M5 turn on (it's pretty distinct). "That's my car!" His wife said, "Naw, you're crazy, no way." Sure enough, enough, key fob attack and thef…
> If I were the insurance companies, I'd be putting pressure on the car companies
Oh please, this is Ontario. The auto insurance companies main innovations have been:
1) getting caps on benefits
2) creating new driving violations to jack up your premiums (eg: non-criminally blowing over 0.05, but less than 0.08)
Neither resulted in lower premiums for anyone else.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could simply putting the thing in a foil/metal lined drawer in your entryway do the trick?
I do exactly this. I lined a cookie tin with foil, and tested it by holding the closed box (with the keys inside) next to the car. It didn’t unlock. Then I opened the box, and it did unlock. The box has to be closed (lid fully on, no gaps) or the car will still unlock. Of course this only foils overnight theft. I imagine it would be trivial for someone to follow me from a car park to a public location and sit next to…
Does an unlined cookie tin not work? Does having the lid mostly closed (but with some small gaps) at least cut the effective range?
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure if this is a joke about old keys being better, but I'd argue you could have the benefits of new keys and old keys combined if you just made it so that new keys have to be inserted into some compartment inside of cars, where they are authenticated by those cars. You can imagine a fob with a USB that has a different authentication code than the wireless one it sends out, and unless the USB is plugged into…
But then my mom would have to dump out her purse every time she wanted to unlock her car.
My mom used to be the same! It would take her 10 minutes to find her fob! But, there are typically ways around this. For example, now my mom has her keyfob in a small pouch of her purse, and she always knows where it is.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure if this is a joke about old keys being better, but I'd argue you could have the benefits of new keys and old keys combined if you just made it so that new keys have to be inserted into some compartment inside of cars, where they are authenticated by those cars. You can imagine a fob with a USB that has a different authentication code than the wireless one it sends out, and unless the USB is plugged into…
Yes, I was making a joke, but I was also semi-serious. I personally wouldn't mind that the car unlocks based on the fob's proximity, but requires insertion of the key for ignition. I currently drive a 2009 car with the usual key fob and my biggest issue with it is not having to insert it to start the car, but unlocking the doors while my hands are full. Once I'm seated in the driver's seat I'm not carrying anything a…
> unlocks based on the fob's proximity
Unfortunately, that would be vulnerable to theives unlocking your car and taking everything in it. For me, the biggest convenience of fobs is the ability to start the car and have AC on so that the car isn't burning/freezing when I get to it
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
2fa on a car would be a disaster. I can't wait to whip out my phone in the pouring rain, trying to unlock it while my hands are full and I have no signal.
Something you have: keyless fob. Something you know: numeric unlock code. Unlocking the doors could be 1FA, but moving the vehicle should require 2FA.
And/or a fingerprint sensor (could even be in the door handle)