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Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

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Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#241

Post by barrow-rider »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #112
esotericn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this just an American thing? Healthcare funding, or something? I've never been to SF, but I've visited NYC, and the subway there feels like stepping in to a horror movie. During a two week visit I saw people passing out and being ignored (I was the only one attempting to help), individuals swinging around bricks in socks, and various other obvious examples of severely mentally ill individuals. In London I've never…

The funny thing is that, to me, the NYC system seems to work so much better than San Francisco’s, based on my usage of it. And NYC also has a much bigger police presence than San Francisco, which results in it feeling like a much safer city.

I'll also second this. Not as clean or orderly as the DC metro, but for the most part the NYC subway was easy and simple to get around in.

Only time I've ever been jumped or harassed on a train was in Madrid.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#242

Post by pageandrew »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #205
pageandrew wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to self defense means that you have the right to use force, including deadly force, to stop a threat to your life. In a life or death situation, your last concern should be moderating your force against your assailant to stop the threat.

Only in the case where is is a life or death situation. The vast majority of self-defense situations involve the threat of simple material loss. Just hand it over, your wallet/phone is not worth your life. If your life is threatened, you use the necessary force to stop the assailant. That may include the use of deadly force, but that threat of deadly force (brandishing a firearm) should absolutely not be the first ca…

I specifically said that use of force is allowed when stopping a threat to your life. Your property is not your life.

> The vast majority of self-defense situations involve the threat of simple material loss

What are you citing here?

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#243

Post by scruple »

selestify wrote: post #210
closeparen wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. In many ways we are simply stuck with whatever we built before we lost the ability to build things. Not because it’s the best, but because it’s no longer cost effective to improve at current efficiency levels.

How did we become so inefficient?

I don't really think that it's about inefficiency or incompetence. Rather, it's about where our priorities, as a society, are today when it comes to infrastructure projects vs. what it was in the post Great Depression era.

Here [0] is an article to covers parts of this exact subject.

[0]: https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2013/08/09/building-the-bay-bri...

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#244

Post by burfog »

School-Cotton wrote: post #46
twblalock wrote: post #38

This is why it's hard to get support for public transit funding. People don't want to take public transit if they will fear for their lives, or be surrounded by drug addicts and mentally disturbed people yelling at and spitting on other passengers. BART trains and stations are like this on a regular basis; Muni has the same problems but not as bad. I've seen this kind of thing happen on Caltrain late at night also, b…

I don’t have the numbers to back this up, but I strongly suspect that if the true cost of driving (both in terms of environmental destruction and massive land use and construction cost for roads and parking lots) were reflected in the price of cars or gas, people simply wouldn’t be able to afford the luxury of a private commute, and mass transit systems would be able to compete even without any public funding at all.

For cars, the roads really are free.

Road damage is proportional to the 4th power of the vehicle weight. Normal cars effectively do nothing to roads. The damage comes from buses, fire trucks, UPS trucks, FedEx trucks, bucket trucks... and more trucks.

Switching all that to rail is completely unreasonable. Fire departments getting around on rail?

So we need the roads anyway, and cars don't wear them out. Cars do not impose a cost. As it is, car drivers are paying money to fix roads that are being damaged by buses.

What if we charged bus passengers the true cost of taking the bus? Each passenger on a bus is contributing to road damage. Each driver in a car doesn't cause damage.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#245

Post by vondur »

cylinder wrote: post #222
vondur wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing it is easy. Arrest and prosecute criminal behavior. California won't do it though. It's only a matter of time till some of the larger tech companies decide that the Bay Area is too far gone and start leaving.

What makes you think the people who make these sorts of decisions are exposed to any of this?

When people stop taking jobs in these areas. Not sure how long that will take. I do remember reading how the American Medical Association canceled their conference in San Francisco due to the homeless issues. https://abc7news.com/medical-association-cancels-san-francis...

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#246

Post by mindslight »

pteredactyl wrote: post #121
nodesocket wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ideology of inaction, or "nothing" we can do about it, is a phenomenon unique to the bay area. I used to live there, and it is one of the reasons I left. Criminal activity is not pursued, bad behavior is not penalized. I'm sure there are many reasons, but I suspect a big factor is that police and politicians are afraid of cracking down due to the political fallout and backlash. There is a palpable disdain for po…

Yea I'm in SF not sure how long I'll last. It's a cess pool. Criminals have more rights than children. There was a crazy homeless guy who would shit everyday in front of a school in Bernal. The police couldn't do anything about it. You are completely right about the fear of political fallout for wanting to uphold the law. It's sad.

> You are completely right about the fear of political fallout for wanting to uphold the law.

The erosion of respect for the rule of law is a direct result of the attempt to use law to implement a top-down social design, chiefly the "war on drugs". With policing being a public good, those with the least means should appreciate police the most. But rather their communities were persecuted using the police, and so those communities were pushed into adopting an alternative view. Similarly, even mainstream society does not actually expect police to be helpful towards us but rather as a source of trouble to be avoided (eg speeding tickets).

Given that public opinion cannot be directly changed, good initial steps to restoring public faith in the institution would be to eliminate invasive vice legislation, completely remove police from the enforcement of traffic regulations, as well as fully prosecuting criminals even when they're police officers.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#247

Post by burfog »

matchbok wrote: post #107
userbinator wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more likely it is for criminals to be fatally shot by everyone around them if they try to do anything, the less likely they're going to try --- even if they themselves have a gun, they're going to be outnumbered.

This is 100% wrong. Not sure if you are joking or just misinformed. Everyone already knows there are tons of guns out there. It doesn't deter crazy crime at all .

Yes, there are tons of guns, but who has them? Legal ownership is rare due to the law. Lawbreakers don't follow the law by definition, so they have guns and you can't change that. There is something to be said for evening things up.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#248

Post by sizzle »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #88

I'm sure that some other people have run into this scam on BART but I had it happen a few years ago. Right before the doors close at the SFO BART stop headed to Milbrae, a guy runs on all out of breath yelling and pleading for money to get a ticket for his sick daughter. He's a war vet and needs to get her to the hospital in Travis but they won't let her on the plane for some reason etc...Does this till the Milbrae s…

One more reason not to carry cash unless concealed in a bag or hidden pocket. I'll pay for things with card or phone just to avoid high-pressure pan handling situations like this.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#249

Post by leetcrew »

rorykoehler wrote: post #186
m1sta_ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s due to a failure to enforce the law. The reason for that failure is needs to be addressed.

Is it really though? I feel like Americans regularly say things like this (guns is another similar topic) which only reflects an inability to think many steps down the line from the outcome. There is something deeper at play and I would suspect that it has to do with economic insecurity and lack of opportunity which is further compounded by a lack of education and social cohesion in general. American values are all w…

> American values are all wrong.

how can you tell when values are wrong?

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#250

Post by Balgair »

pteredactyl wrote: post #121
nodesocket wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ideology of inaction, or "nothing" we can do about it, is a phenomenon unique to the bay area. I used to live there, and it is one of the reasons I left. Criminal activity is not pursued, bad behavior is not penalized. I'm sure there are many reasons, but I suspect a big factor is that police and politicians are afraid of cracking down due to the political fallout and backlash. There is a palpable disdain for po…

Yea I'm in SF not sure how long I'll last. It's a cess pool. Criminals have more rights than children. There was a crazy homeless guy who would shit everyday in front of a school in Bernal. The police couldn't do anything about it. You are completely right about the fear of political fallout for wanting to uphold the law. It's sad.

> Criminals have more rights than children.

I was in SF for a job interview a while back. Got off at Civic Center BART to meet a friend. Hoooooooly Cow! I'm not sure about 'rights' per se, but I saw at least two people shoot heroin up, in broad-daylight, in the middle of Market Street, on a Thursday, round about 1pm in the afternoon, not even 20 feet away for at least five uniformed SFPD officers. The officers did nothing. My friend says that's kinda how it is.

https://sf.curbed.com/2018/6/21/17488516/farrell-civic-cente...

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