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NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

fox5ny.com

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Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#241

Post by shard972 »

woolvalley wrote: post #158
CPLX wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

So if the numbers are so small, why does it matter that this tax deal exists then. I think most of the hate is fueled by emotional anger at the rich due to increasing inequality in the USA, even though this investment in NYC is a positive for it when you look at it rationally.

How does it help anybody outside NYC?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#242

Post by jdminhbg »

cryptica wrote: post #163
tylerhou wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you measure progress? For the past decade, we've severely deteriorated as a society - Yet politicians will call it progress. Citation? By most metrics we've improved as a society in the last 10 years.

>> Citation? Donald Trump, Brexit, Facebook, opioids epidemic, cryptocurrencies, increased rents, soul-crushing corporate jobs for all.

How hard do you think it would be to compose an equivalent list for any time period in history?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#243

Post by throw2016 »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #180
kodablah wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regardless, the gov should not be in the job buying biz Says you. I think they do a better job buying that biz than many of the other biz's they buy with public funds. If you want to see pockets being lined, look to things that don't have returns on investment or are poorly managed in real corrupt ways (ala many public pension plans). Not comparing dollar spent to dollar spent of tax money compared to benefits make…

The gov's job is to govern. Period. How about we let it get that right before it starts branching off into things it's has little or no expertise in. Again. The gov created the housing bubble __and__ the student loan bubble. I don't say they should be in the job buying biz. __The Gov__ has said that. Whether you're listening or not is up to you.

Neoliberalism, Milton Friedman and the free market crowd have been demonizing government for decades now and successfully lobbied for the removal of regulations since the 80s leading to the housing bubble, education loans and exploding tuition costs, buybacks and rampant financialization.

This banking crisis, fraud, education loan bubble is the direct result of 30 years of neoliberal free market policies. Yet instead of owning up to their mistakes in an act of brazen revisionism and fraud they are blaming the government for listening to them, and this is taken seriously. This is ideology.

A govt hijacked to promote special interests is not a government, its a plutocracy.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#244

Post by gorbachev »

kodablah wrote: post #233
gorbachev wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Please tell me what about this is bad." A trillion dollar company does not need subsidies.

It does if you want their business. You made a statement, you didn't say why it was bad.

You need to be explained why $1.5B in public assistance to a trillion dollar ($700B+ today it seems) company is bad?

I'll try.

It distorts the competition, ESPECIALLY in the case of Amazon which more or less competes with every retailer everywhere.

It sets a bad precedent (yes, yes, water under the bridge) of big corporations expecting these benefits any time they feel like moving around.

NYC has better uses for the money.

It doesn't need the goddamn money, because it's one of the most successful companies in the entire world, ever. It can finance its operations by itself with absolutely no problem whatsoever. It's ridiculous they're even asking for public assistance.

This is a race to the bottom. Sports stadium construction incentives are good examples of this.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#245

Post by simplysimple »

drchickensalad wrote: post #240
simplysimple wrote: post #237

crony capitalism at it's "finest". What a joke, of course - it's ok when New York elites do it but it's evvvvvvvviiiiiiiiiiiil when Donald Trump wants to give tax breaks to all Americans.

Literally nobody has claimed giving tax breaks to the 90% of Americans is evil. Your comment appears sololy meant to be inflammatory and promote low quality conversation.

Wrong. Chuck Schumer called it a "one-two gut punch to the middle class". Nanci Pelosi called it "simply theft — monumental, brazen theft — from the American middle-class and from every person who aspires to reach it". And that is only if the tax cuts are not renewed in 2027 - which the democrats voted against making them permanent.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#246

Post by seshagiric »

CPLX wrote: post #85
rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

That's right but may be NYC is trying to avoid becoming another Chicago?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#247

Post by zjaffee »

CPLX wrote: post #85
rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

This is why HQ2 is in Long Island City though, because that's how economic development programs work. Cities give incentives to minimize the risks involved in locating in a less desirable location.

It absolutely would've been smarter for amazon to remain in midtown like they currently are since it would be much easier to recruit from the suburbs many existing tech workers live in, but they would've lost over a billion of the incentive dollars they got in the process.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#248

Post by zjaffee »

nerdponx wrote: post #153
Spooky23 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC needs more diversity outside of finance. This potentially puts NYC on top for retail again. I think incentives and payments for this purpose is a meh idea, it if you’re going to do it, bet on a winner.

Imagine giving $48,000 to 25,000 small business owners over 10 years instead.

They already do this, the excelsior tax break among other community development incentives are available to any employer that wants to locate in long island city. Small employers are probably less effective at leveraging these things, but nothing amazon is getting isn't totally open to the public.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#249

Post by illumin8 »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #225
fmmow wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech hasn't been kind to Seattle or SF. Maybe to the people attracted likely to be filling this jobs, but not to the people in the surrounding areas. LIC was mostly warehouses at one point and you're right a lot of the new units are housing for people moving away from Manhattan. But the concern is not just about LIC; it's about Corona, Astoria, Jackson Heights. These are areas with a lot of immigrant communities, com…

No, NIMBYs haven't been kind to Seattle or SF. You are attributing the unkindness to the symptom, not the problem.

This 1000x. It's fashionable to blame the shortage of SF housing on tech, when the truth is that NIMBYs have created the shortage over decades by not allowing high density housing construction.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#250

Post by illumin8 »

CPLX wrote: post #85
rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

This is not a travesty. This is cementing NYC as the place to go on the east coast if you want to work in tech, and helping to diversify the NYC economy away from being so heavily dependent on finance.

Wouldn't it be nice if your options for working in tech didn't consist of a handful of large banks and hedge funds?

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