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Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

nytimes.com

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Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#241

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

Sephr wrote: post #58

Am I the only one who wants to see more seated scooter innovation? I would much prefer riding one of these self-balancing scooters/microcycles to the standing scooters that everyone is using. 1. http://rynomotors.com (launches April 16, 2019) 2. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/newest-fat-tyre-elect... 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZk9zn82-g

Brand and marketing is important. Scooters have successfully been marketed and branded to look cool.

Even on their landing pages, those products look ridiculous. Convincing people in mass to ride around on those things is going to be hard.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#242

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

dangwu wrote: post #65
andrewljohnson wrote: post #61

There I was, sitting at the busy intersection of Sacramento and Ashby in Berkeley, when I saw two boys that couldn't have been more than 8-10 years old fly by on Bird Scooters. And I thought to myself, some kid is going to die. And lots of people do die on these things: https://www.google.com/search?q=bird+scooters+deaths These scooter companies suck, I wish they'd all go away. If they weren't all going for hypergrow…

You have to be 18 years old with a driver's license to ride Bird scooters.

You also have to be 21 to buy JUUL...

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#243

Post by matthewmacleod »

edaemon wrote: post #235
quantum_magpie wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not proper ones. Real bike lanes in bike-able cities have a small curb separating them from the street and then another one to separate from the sidewalk.

Agreed, and those are essentially what I'm advocating for, but the vast majority of bike lanes aren't like that. I live in Portland, the most bike-friendly city in the US, and we have very few of them. I would also say they aren't really bike "lanes" -- they're not a lane in the street. The Dutch call them "cycle tracks" which seems more fitting.

the most bike-friendly city in the US

Okay, but… low bar and all that.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#244

Post by henryfjordan »

justchilly wrote: post #179
the_watcher wrote: post #6

I used Bird, Lime, Lyft, and Jump scooters over the weekend in LA and they were great for getting around when I'd have otherwise considered driving (over a 45 minute walk). I tried a Skip scooter again when I got back to SF, and once again, it simply could not handle a minor (for SF) hill. I don't know what the solution is, since it seems like a bad idea to power them more to handle hills given the dangers that would…

The old Bird and Lime scooters had 250W motors. The new Skip scooters have 350W (plus suspension which is nice). The skips can get to a walking pace up to ~10% grade, but grind to a halt anywhere near Nob/Russian Hill. You need at least 750W to do the trick. They also all have just a single break, which makes going down those hills dangerous.

The Xiaomi scooter I have has 2 brakes, but you only have direct control of one. The motor does some regenerative braking any time you let off the accelerator, which I've found is enough to cruise down a moderate grade quite nicely. Sometimes on a steeper grade (which SF has some of) you need to reach for the disc brake. This essentially gives you a front and rear brake.

To my knowledge all the scooters do some sort of regenerative braking. The Segway-brand scooters that Lime uses seem to ONLY have regenerative braking but those give you a little paddle to control it with. I wouldn't trust one of those to go down-hill, but anything with a disc-brake is fine.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#245

Post by zjaffee »

randyrand wrote: post #19
danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

I've owned both a scooter and skateboard for 7 months. I disagree, you can ride a scooter on a sidewalk safely and I need to do it from time to time. Of course, I don't prefer it. But it's pretty easy to do safely and it shouldn't bother anyone if done correctly. The rules I follow: 1. Go much much slower. 2. Stay far away from other people and blind corners. 3. Always assume a person is about to make an erratic move…

It shouldn't be the opinion of the person on the scooter what is safe or not safe to do with said scooter on the sidewalk. Take space away from cars, not pedestrians.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#246

Post by zjaffee »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #4
danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

> They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traffic These are great ideas. Write them into your representatives. Designated street-side scooter parking would also be a plus. Not only does it signal to drivers "consider another option," it also deals with the scooter litter problem. (To form, San Francisco chose the worst of all option…

Speaking of representatives and bikes, there's a massive bipartisan congressional caucus on biking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Bike_Caucus), yet it's not really gone anywhere in the form of policy.

It certainly would be amazing if national incentives could be set up to redesign streets nation wide to favor bikes and pedestrians in the same way we do cars.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#247

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

ghaff wrote: post #236
olyjohn wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um. Can't you just ride slower on the sidewalk? Or are they the kinda that have an on/off switch for a throttle?

The problem is that pretty much the whole point is to go faster than walking speed. If you can't, what's the point?

The "not having to walk" part is still kind of handy even at walking speed. My joints aren't what they used to be.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#248

Post by randyrand »

zjaffee wrote: post #245
randyrand wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've owned both a scooter and skateboard for 7 months. I disagree, you can ride a scooter on a sidewalk safely and I need to do it from time to time. Of course, I don't prefer it. But it's pretty easy to do safely and it shouldn't bother anyone if done correctly. The rules I follow: 1. Go much much slower. 2. Stay far away from other people and blind corners. 3. Always assume a person is about to make an erratic move…

It shouldn't be the opinion of the person on the scooter what is safe or not safe to do with said scooter on the sidewalk. Take space away from cars, not pedestrians.

Cultural rules are more important for this kind of stuff. Laws are nice but usually the police don’t prosecute this low level stuff anyways.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#249

Post by randyrand »

wpietri wrote: post #195
randyrand wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've owned both a scooter and skateboard for 7 months. I disagree, you can ride a scooter on a sidewalk safely and I need to do it from time to time. Of course, I don't prefer it. But it's pretty easy to do safely and it shouldn't bother anyone if done correctly. The rules I follow: 1. Go much much slower. 2. Stay far away from other people and blind corners. 3. Always assume a person is about to make an erratic move…

It's not impossible, but it's unrealistic to expect that everybody who can poke their finger on an app button will do this. If scooters require knowledge, thought, and skill to ride well on a sidewalk, then the two obvious answers are a) require training and a road test, or b) ban them on sidewalks. I don't much care which we go with, but having recently almost gotten flattened by some rental e-scooter idiot on the s…

Society does not learn etiquette over night.

lots of things only have etiquette and no laws.

Laws are nice too, but getting people to follow them is equally tricky.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#250

Post by randyrand »

ghaff wrote: post #236
olyjohn wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um. Can't you just ride slower on the sidewalk? Or are they the kinda that have an on/off switch for a throttle?

The problem is that pretty much the whole point is to go faster than walking speed. If you can't, what's the point?

most roads are safe enough to go on or have bike lanes.

i only go on sidewalks when I need to. So scooters are still worth it even if you are safe on sidewalks.

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