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Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

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Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#241

Post by slededit »

userbinator wrote: post #77
cjbprime wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, there have been Cessna deaths caused the same way. It's my least favorite failure mode to think about, since there's no obvious way to correct. In a Cessna, best you can do is release the yoke and tiptoe on to the rudders, but professional instructors have still died when this happens to them, since low altitude errors are often not correctable by the time you've lost too much altitude. Usually there ought to be…

In contrast, I can't say I've ever heard of seats in cars having this problem. Is it because plane seats are highly optimised for weight?

If your car seat is electric is probably based on a worm gear which is more or less self locking.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#242

Post by pbarnes_1 »

oe wrote: post #130
nitinreddy88 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What caused them to retun in half way? Report says Trichy airport informed pilot about posssible damage to plane. Pilot ignored it saying everything is green. What happened in 4hrs to divert back to Mumbai is still mystery. Will be interesting to see full report

Is it possible that Dubai refused to let them land with a flyable but potentially pretty broken plane?

No. That's really not how anything works.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#243

Post by jackweirdy »

mprev wrote: post #214
sjg007 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a pilot once told me: "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going"

Brand loyalty is an amazingly powerful thing. I wonder if anyone says, “I won’t be there Gus if it isn’t an Airbus”.

Time’s a plenty in an a320

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#244

Post by kumarvvr »

nitinreddy88 wrote: post #94
justboxing wrote: post #80

Just saw the pics of the damage on the twitter thread linked-to in the article. See below. https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status/1050595274869993474 Looks quite severe. I'm impressed the plane flew for 3 hours without getting destablized and crashing.... Air India has the worst safety reputation in India, and several accidents / incidents. I flew Spice Jet a few times over the last few weeks when I was there visiti…

The most surprising part is, trichy to mumbai takes hardly 1hr flight time. What caused them to take 4hrs? In 4hrs, they could have landed in Dubai itself easily Being Indian, I agree with statement about AirIndia. I would never fly in AirIndia even if the ticket price is too low, laughably they usually cost way above than any other competitors.

The flight is from Trichy to Dubai, so they were on course.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#245

Post by ddeck »

throw2016 wrote: post #189
ddeck wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some facts: Hull loss rates by region of operator per million departures (Jet / Turboprop) 2012-2016: [0] - 2.21 / 7.38 Africa - 1.17 / 20.59 CIS - 0.74 / 3.42 Middle East / North Africa - 0.53 / 1.55 Latin America / Caribbean - 0.48 / 1.45 Asia Pacific - 0.22 / 0.98 North America - 0.14 / 0.73 Europe - 0.00 / 8.73 North Asia India falls below Myanmar, Nepal, Pakistan in air safety audit [1] >The audit — ICAO Univers…

This is highly misleading and deceptive. You are mixing up the headline and data from link 2 which is mainly focused on which government agency licenses ATCs as the reason for lower scores, to the IATA hull loss data from link 1 which does not single out any country or region for below 'minimum safety target rates'. This is the IATA data for hull loss rates for 2017 per million departures: Asia Pacific - 0.18 CIS - 0…

These are two independent data points.

The first is the bulk loss stats.

The second is an article discussing India's poor audit results in the ICAO safety audit, per the quote above the link and sourced to it.

I'm not sure how you can claim that the second link doesn't "link to anything about hull loss, safety issues, aircraft, training". It is the result of an independent safety audit by the ICAO, which encompasses licensing, operations, airworthiness, and a number of other categories[0].

[0] https://www.icao.int/safety/pages/usoap-results.aspx

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#246

Post by YetAnotherNick »

FabHK wrote: post #173
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #168

It looks like the plane couldn't properly take off(likely overloaded), and it's not just an overrun. See the speed graph in the post, and the fact that the gears were retracted that low.

I don’t think we have enough information to make that statement yet. Could be they forgot to set flaps, could be they miscalculated TO speeds, could be they misconfigured auto throttle... As usual, need to wait for investigation and report.

Now we have that: http://www.ptinews.com/news/10109087_Air-India-Express-plane...

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#247

Post by geezerjay »

danaliv wrote: post #180
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #152

I hate articles introducing three-letter-mysteries and leaving the readers in confusion. To add insult to injury, none of the comments seem to acknowledge that the topic is impentrable. What is the mysterious ILS that was hit? Even after reading the Wikipedia article, I only have a vague idea - seems to be a radar system, both on ground and in the air. Did the plane hit a radar tower?

Others have noted that ILS stands for Instrument Landing System. It’s a system used for landing airplanes when you can’t see the runway, typically getting you down to 200 feet, but with special training and equipment you can get down to 100 or even zero (autoland). ILS is the world standard for getting airplanes onto runways in bad weather. The ground portion of an ILS consists of two antenna arrays, one at the end o…

Superb comment. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#248

Post by bbulkow »

cjbprime wrote: post #240
manigandham wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you have nowhere else to go, but it's a last resort and there's definitely a high chance of fines or more serious consequences, especially if it's an active base with sensitive material or operations.

I'm not aware of any more serious consequence having ever happened for a legit emergency, and I am aware of fatal accidents where private pilots were e.g. out of fuel and didn't realize the AFB was an option even though they could've made it.

You know, it's funny, you save the plane, then you get second guessed about whether you used air Force resources wisely, which can have serious repercussions. Or as a professional, have consequences to your career.

It is a crap shoot, based on optics, and partially based on real data. You have to hope your investigator, or boss, sees the data the same way you did....

You made the opposite choice, lose your airframe and your life, and then you should 'clearly' have made the other decision, because the data's in...

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#249

Post by bbulkow »

danaliv wrote: post #180
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #152

I hate articles introducing three-letter-mysteries and leaving the readers in confusion. To add insult to injury, none of the comments seem to acknowledge that the topic is impentrable. What is the mysterious ILS that was hit? Even after reading the Wikipedia article, I only have a vague idea - seems to be a radar system, both on ground and in the air. Did the plane hit a radar tower?

Others have noted that ILS stands for Instrument Landing System. It’s a system used for landing airplanes when you can’t see the runway, typically getting you down to 200 feet, but with special training and equipment you can get down to 100 or even zero (autoland). ILS is the world standard for getting airplanes onto runways in bad weather. The ground portion of an ILS consists of two antenna arrays, one at the end o…

Thanks for that, I was wondering if the grounds portion of the ils was hit, or the plane component.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#250

Post by mveety »

manigandham wrote: post #238
cjbprime wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even non-major ones! I hear you can even land at an air force base in the US as a civilian private pilot without any negative consequences, providing you have declared emergency.

Yes, if you have nowhere else to go, but it's a last resort and there's definitely a high chance of fines or more serious consequences, especially if it's an active base with sensitive material or operations.

No, that almost certainly wouldn't happen. If you declare, you're basically given cart blanche provided you can reasonably justify your actions, and if an AFB is closer than a civilian airport, for example, its absolutely okay to land there (though you should probably give them a call first saying you're landing). Your first priority is not dying; legal consequences don't matter when you're in that situation, and the FAA knows that. If breaking a law will save you they'd rather you do that than die, and they almost certainly won't punish you for it.
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