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Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

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Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#241
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short sellers. People who sell something they don't own, speculating that they will be able to buy it later at a lower price. If so, they make money. If not and the price goes up a bit, some shorts are forced to buy at the higher price to limit their losses. That pushes the price up further, forcing more shorts to buy, etc., causing a "short squeeze" where the price rapidly shoots up very high, "destroying" a lot of…

Pedantically shorting doesn’t have to be borrowing the underlying instrument. Put options are another way to trade on the idea that a stock will go down. I’d actually bet it’s the more common way. It would still be colloquially referred to as being short.

That's actually the opposite of "pedantically" given that you're playing loose with the definition. Pedantically, shorting is selling a financial instrument you don't own, with the idea (though it is not a requirement to fit the definition) that you'll give it back later by buying at a price lower than it is now.

What you described is options trading, one method of which hedges against declines in stock price. Yeah, one could take a "short" position by buying puts, but it can be argued that a short position is not what puts were originally designed for. In contrast to short sellers who obviously intend for the price to go down, or they won't make any money.

I do question whether puts are the "more common way" given that they have an expiration. You can hold on to a short sell as long as you can pay the interest and the loaning party doesn't want their shares back.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#242
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How I define successful. Well, how about go back 10 years and look at the size of Tesla and SpaceX. And then look at them now. I dont think anybody can argue that he was not succcessful.

But Tesla is not profitable, SpaceX claims to be but the veracity of the claim is untested. They're constantly at risk of collapse (due to bad management), and they don't seem to be self-sustaining - Tesla in particular needs infusions of cash constantly to function, and is essentially on life support. They do make good (or at least novel and fascinating) products, but the cost of doing so is extremely high. Why does…

You have any data to backup your claim that SpaceX is not profitable ?

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#243
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might help: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/091813/... The problem with stops is that you run the risk of the price gapping up or down and your stop getting filled at a much different price than expected.

I'm an experienced trader in the sense that I've had only bad experiences trading. Thinking a stop loss order would help I (and the order) failed to account for one of those flash crashes that happen for no obvious reason other than to trigger execution of stopped orders.

With leveraged products (like rolling turbos [1]), that risk is usually on the offering institution? I dabbled in those a few times when pretty sure (or full) of myself. There are no margin calls in turbos, you add leverage to your liking (x 2, x 5, x 10, ..) and you pay a hefty interest on your leverage (say 7%). Your exposure is exactly the price you bought for.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_(finance)

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#244

The frequency of these bizarre actions by Musk are going up. Is he seriously just cracking under the pressure of having way too much on his plate? The dude is obviously a genius, but he's turning into a mad genius.

Why do people keep calling him a genius? His main distinction is his money and DESIRE to build interesting things. Nowhere is his staggering, extraordinary intelligence evident. I’d love to be demonstrated wrong, but this genius fetishism seems to be harmful with no benefit: the man is running a company. Judge him on how well he does, not how he’s so intelligent it's so sad he can't take care of his employees responsibly.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#245

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

> Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts Is there any evidence that this was his intent? How do you know that he didn't actually intend to take the company private?

He's said a lot of anti-short-seller things on twitter. Even if he genuinely wanted to take the company private, it's hard to see the "funding secured" statement as anything other than a lie.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#246

I'm curious - supposing HN had the power to decide, would you replace Elon Musk as CEO of Tesla? What kind of future does the company have without its founder? Personally, I think I would be much more confident in Tesla, and much more likely to buy a Tesla product, if he were not in charge.

Emphatically yes; Musk being the current head of Tesla and SpaceX has been the defining characteristic in preventing me from seeking work at either company. I'd be sending out applications to both if he announced his departure (or even a long sabbatical).

I believe very much in the missions that Tesla and SpaceX romanticize, but I cannot reconcile those with Musk's public behavior. Calling people pedophiles on the internet, trying to suppress unionization efforts, and seemingly lying about going private entirely on a whim does not pass ethical muster for me.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#247
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The small upside of this is that maybe Musk will be convinced to settle the libel suit that was announced yesterday [0]. For the suit filed in the UK, the max loss would be ~$400K (unless it goes to trial and he ends up paying Vern Unsworth's legal costs), and it would spare us the sad spectacle of Musk trying to prove that Unsworth is a pedo. [0] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/cave-rescuer-su...

I give Musk a little bit more credit than brutely calling someone a pedo without any proof. If you are as rich as Musk, there must be someone you can pay to dig up dirt on your opponents. Now there may be more trouble in showing that proof than settling. 400k is nothing for Musk, but principles and hurt ego are priceless.

> dig up dirt on your opponents

How does a man risking his life to save children halfway across the planet qualify as an opponent?

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#248
post #228
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also goes on personal crusades against members of the press, or just some random people that have said something mean, but true about him. (Vern Unsworth) He is very open to fans who give him good press, but closes up, and dismisses boring questions from haters and non-believers and shorts. Now, there is certainly a bit of a track record with a recent American presidents for this sort of thing. I'm not sure you wa…

What is the middle ground here? Are all public figures supposed to completely hold back all views and follow some unspoken social rules? It's one thing not to make dumb mistakes that hurt your company but the end result of this outrage/apology tour culture we're developing and forever expanding the scope of is going to create a completely risk averse, milquetoast, and boring culture where honesty from public figures…

> What is the middle ground here? Are all public figures supposed to completely hold back all views and follow some unspoken social rules?

If you're a major public figure, try to hold back on accusing someone who has just shown themselves to be pretty heroic by rescuing stuck children, a pedo.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#249
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shorts drive the price down Not on their own they don't. You can go and short Facebook right now and it won't move the price at all.

Not individually, but if enough people short it, then that becomes a signal to other investors that maybe there's something they don't know about, which will push the price down.

And other investors see that short interest piling into an otherwise healthy (hypothetical) stock and they buy in anticipation of a short squeeze. And when the stock pops due to good news, those shorts become rocket fuel for the stock going up.

No single action in the stock market happens in a vacuum, and longs will absolutely react to what the shorts are doing. And a high short interest is often viewed as a contrarian indicator that dumb short money has piled into the stock and that its actually due for a pop. You often see that at bottoms in the stock.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#250
Has anyone ever made a psychoanalysis of the average musk/jobs/zuckerberg "fanatic".

I feel like people have some sort of messiah complex. Where companies become religions each with their own set of rituals, like waiting for 10 weeks in the street and inquisitions denouncing critics as hereticals ("shorts", "android-shills", etc.)

Finding out whether people try to replace their philosophical hole left by a lack of believe or being dissatisfied with materialistic world-views is the cause of this "technoreligions" in the 21st century could make for a nice dissertation.

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