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Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

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Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#241

Post by vesak »

badpun wrote: post #86
grzm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS support has steadily increased over time. "[iOS 12] covers five previous generations of iPhones, stretching back to the iPhone 5S." https://www.fastcompany.com/90237242/take-apples-advice-dont... Yes, as hardware improves and the OS and applications take advantage of this hardware, newer applications may run slower on older hardware. I'm not aware of any phone manufacturer or OS for which this isn't true. AFAIK,…

It shows that sustainability is not even an afterthought. Everybody is ok with throwing away perfectly working devices (i.e. devices that were blazing fast just a couple years ago and now, with some crippling os updates, take 10 seconds to open a PDF) just because they're 3-5 years old. Let's see if Apple really does change their policy on this. For premium, very expensive phones, it would be reasonable for them to b…

You have no idea what you're talking about, or you're maliciously spreading a lie. Apple consistently keeps old devices running, and running well, on old hardware.

Of the competition, only some environments running on Linux/BSD kinda manages to do the same. Android is just laughable in comparison.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#242

Post by jjoonathan »

ceejayoz wrote: post #225
jjoonathan wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a dozen gaskets along your car's power train that will set you back multiple times that amount if they fail, yet they don't and you trust them not to. Of course, if you let your kid reassemble either your power train or your $1500 iPhone without supervision, the results will be exactly as you describe, but also entirely your own damn fault.

> There are a dozen gaskets along your car's power train that will set you back multiple times that amount if they fail, yet they don't and you trust them not to. For that reason, I maintain precisely zero of them myself.

Regardless of whether or not you do the repairs yourself, you reap the benefits of the design as some combination of longer life, lower repair bills, and higher resale value.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#243

Post by mrpopo »

volkl48 wrote: post #60
mrpopo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the context. I am extremely doubtful that a company like Apple is going to commit to durability, parts reuse and recycling. Repairability score of iPhones are not so bad, but the latest MacBooks are unrepairable.

They can be repaired in the sense that everything in them can be replaced. However they've integrated a lot of components so a lot of things that would traditionally be able to be replaced individually can't be. You basically have 3 major components in the current Macbook Pro line: - Logic board - MB/CPU/SSD/RAM - Top Case - Keyboard/Trackpad/Battery/upper shell - Display Then you have minor miscellaneous parts like…

Sadly, what you described does indeed fall far below the "repairable" threshold for me.

That being said, I will remember to stop criticizing Apple on HN from now on.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#244

Post by WalterGR »

EZ-E wrote: post #21

Real talk here : what makes an iPhone slow after 2 years? - the battery aging? - the apps using more ressources than before? - the newer OS version using more ressources than before? I've started using my old Android phone again after it being unused 3 years (Nexus 4), the apps are extremely slow now, the camera takes forever to open : what's going on? Computers don't age as much

the newer OS version using more ressources than before?

My iPhone 6 (purchased April 2015) ran great with iOS 10. I stupidly upgraded to iOS 11 and it’s now so slow that I loathe using the thing at all. I know I should have less screen time. The degree to which iOS 11 destroyed my phone’s performance has made the prospect sound delightful rather than a chore. That I’d be gaining something rather than losing something.

That Apple made iOS 11 installable on the iPhone 6 is the definition of a cynical planned-obsolescence money grab. It has single-handedly made me want to use my phone less, and to resent Apple enough that I have no intention of upgrading to a later model iPhone.

Maybe iOS 12 fixes this.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#245

Post by King-Aaron »

justtopost wrote: post #74
sokoloff wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How easy is it for end-users to replace the battery in that off-warranty 5S? Oh. I see. I did it in about 45 minutes the first time, and could do another in 20-30 minutes pretty easily. It's now a 5-year old phone. 10 minutes labor per year is OK in my book. How easy is it for end-users to replace the clutch in that off-warranty Civic? For that matter, how many people even change their own brakes (one of the easies…

Now, I am clearly not the avg HN reader, but I did a civic clutch last month. 1st one lasted over 200k, and I am replacing the second. It took me about 4 hours with a floor jack, basic tools and a harbor freight impact. But it also lasted 15 years with constant use, and is literally designed a phisical wear item. My battery I replace every 3 years, as my climate is both extremely cold and hot. Its right up front with…

+1

When I did mine recently, I dropped the entire K-frame, box and engine on to the floor in around 45-60minutes, had the head off in another 10 minutes, surfaced both the flywheel and head's mating surfaces within the next 30 minutes (hey-ho flappy disk on the grinder! It's just an EG Civic with a d15b) and had the whole car assembled in an hour. The fact that I have access to a two post hoist cut my time down.

Now compared with the fact that I have destroyed two phones attempting to separate the adhesive rubbish that holds everything together inside them, I actually think changing the clutch on an EG is probably easier for the "average" user than changing a modern phone battery. A decent set of ratcheting spanners, a torque wrench and a Haynes manual is all you need, and you're not going to accidentally break anything.

It should also be noted that almost all cars "back in the day" (i.e. the 30's, 40's, etc) noted in their own user manuals how to check ring gaps etc with the expectations that owners would rebuild their own cars. How far we've come.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#246

Post by llampx »

brokenmachine wrote: post #240
icantdrive55 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For that matter, how many people even change their own brakes (one of the easiest DIY tasks, IMO)?" Most poor people, middle class (what's left). Although rental agreements, and section 8 leases prohibit working on any vechicle on said properties. The average person should know how to repace at least the front disc brake pads. (Jack, torx, or 12-13 mm socket, c-champ to push fluid back into reservoir, and pads. 2 ho…

> Hell, I still cut my hair with a vacuume cleaner? How do you cut your hair with a vacuum cleaner?

Look up the Flowbee.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#247

Post by llampx »

xoa wrote: post #130
llampx wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repairability as a goal or standard recognizes that no product is perfect, and that if or when something inside it goes wrong or needs servicing, it should be easy to do so. Batteries are a wear item for example, and should be easy to swap out with spares available freely. They aren't. Screens and glass backs are prone to cracking and shattering - not an issue in a desktop monitor or a TV, or even a laptop, but a big…

> and that if or when something inside it goes wrong or needs servicing, it should be easy to do so. Be careful and precise please. What to you mean by "easy" here in the context of the general public? I think what most people mean by "easy" is "I drop it off/send it away, and I get back something working within a day to a week depending on the product and faster is better, and it costs me nothing for [reasonable amo…

Thank you for disclosing that you fight such legislation. I don't know if that means you're a lawyer for Apple or another firm that is fighting Right to Repair. As a consumer, I am for repairability. Maybe my perspective would be different if my annual bonus depended on increasing the number of units sold every year.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#248

Post by llampx »

artimaeis wrote: post #116
einr wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are other manufacturers better? They used to be. Many still are, although unfortunately many follow the path led by Apple. Here's an educational link for those who think everyone else is as bad as Apple: https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability I have a HP ProBook myself and as far as laptops it is a joy to work on. Very repair-friendly. I can get to the hard drive, battery, CPU and RAM in minutes with no trouble…

> Apple has been systematically and consistently working against repairability and upgradability for decades -- pretty much ever since the original Macintosh. If they want to suddenly change now that's great. I'll believe it when I see it. You say this, but your link shows that the 2011/2012 Macbook Pro is pretty high in the charts with a score of 7/10. Even then the biggest flaw they point out is the use of tri-wing…

A 2011 MacBook Pro is 7 years old now. How about the more recent ones?

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#249

Post by llampx »

krn wrote: post #117
llampx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As people start keeping their phones longer, they will start preferring phones that are more durable and repairable. Making cars that break after a few thousand miles worked out for GM and Chrysler right up until the Japanese and German competition arrived.

The thing smartphones is, that many people actually do want to replace them every few years for a better camera, a better screen, or for some trending feature-of-the-year, like a fingerprint reader or wireless charging. Aren't most Americans replacing their perfectly working flagship smartphones every 2 years?

Americans are a small percentage of the world market, and Americans buying flagship smartphones an even smaller percentage of that market. Of course people with a lot of money can afford to upgrade more often. On HN we tend to forget that not everyone is so lucky, both in terms of job market and in terms of disposable income.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#250

Post by llampx »

saagarjha wrote: post #193
llampx wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why, as an Android user, I prefer not to update unless I really have to. It would be ideal if there were two channels for updates - one for security and one for features and security. That way you could pick what you as a user wanted. So if you are happy with Android Oreo you don't have to upgrade to Pie to keep receiving security updates.

> So if you are happy with Android Oreo you don't have to upgrade to Pie to keep receiving security updates. Of course there is: just buy a phone from a company that's not Google, and you'll never get an OS update every again /s

That is not true. I get regular updates and my phone is not a Pixel but from one of the top 3 smartphone makers in the world. Maybe in the US the situation is different since carriers have a say in the update cadence, which can also be good since there were a few models where the OEM agreed to a certain SLA for updates, so American consumers got updates where the rest of the world got shafted. I believe it was LG.
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