NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students • Hacker News Board

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#241

Post by dcole2929 » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:53 PM UTC

QML wrote: post #183

agitator wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Yes, it will cost a lot and yes we need to find a way to fund it, but giving all communities fair access to education is in everyone's best interest. Increasing the base level of education makes everyone a more intelligent, informed citizen and voter, and will have a positive impact on the progression of our country. I think it's a bad idea to be penny pinching in this regard. I also think everyone being edu…

I agree with a lot of your points, but the way to increasing the base level of education isn’t through making all colleges free — it’s through investing in and making community colleges free. Why? If we’re trying educate the entire populace instead of a few high achieving high schoolers, we should recognize that a majority of people can’t afford to up-end their lives, move far away, and spend 4 years getting a degree…

Most people who go to college don't upend their life. By the numbers ~60% of students go to schools 100 miles or less from home. Obviously the numbers are far different for graduate school but I think the point still stands that subsidizing all college doesn't suddenly require people to move to the other side of the country.

There's also a big difference between classes at a local community college and a university. Some community colleges are quite good, and you can always try to transfer to a 4 year university before graduation. However, it would be incredibly dishonest to pretend that the quality of education between the two is the same or that employers view a degree from a community college the same.

For instance both MD and PA have notoriously few and poor community colleges. But both states have an abundance of very good colleges. Free tuition for all would mean more people could attend those schools as opposed to being forced to attend a poor CC just because that's all they can afford.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#242

Post by dunpeal » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:54 PM UTC

sf_rob wrote: post #230

dunpeal wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is fascinating, because you are in effect arguing that people should be rewarded according to their lack of privilege: "we should give these subsidies to students from 'lower-tier schools' rather than students from 'top-tier schools' who are already well on their way to success". This is the "social justice" argument. Now let me ask you this: If you get sick and require surgery, would you rather be trea…

That is the least generous take of my argument and not conducive to a productive discussion. Never did I make an argument about social justice or the removal of merit from the system. In fact, I was making an elitist argument, that those with great merit will do fine without a subsidy of their tuition and that the market will award them with or without this fund.

I did not mean to offend you, and apologize if I misread your comment.

Either way, I disagree that the better people will always prevail, no matter the circumstances. By definition, a stronger candidate will succeed where a weaker will fail, but that will only apply up to a particular challenge differential. If you keep shifting resources to the weaker candidate, the stronger will fail or give up, eventually.

On a personal level, I came from an underprivileged background myself, and succeeded due to stronger drive and working harder than most people I grew up with. But there were many points when I wanted to give up, and I know how close I was to ending up in the same failure mode as they did.

Finally, even if your argument was correct, and these medical school candidates would succeed "regardless", the point of these scholarships is to make sure they choose medicine as the field to apply themselves and succeed in. Sure, they'll be successful regardless: they'll just make a great career in investment banking, and leave medicine for those who have less options.

Society wants great doctors, so it pays the most qualified individuals to undertake a course of training and application in medicine. Makes sense, I think.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#243

Post by samstave » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:54 PM UTC

pandler wrote: post #76

aabajian wrote: post #4

This is amazing. I graduated from medical school two years ago with $300,000 in debt. I'm a software developer on the side and would love to stop residency to try a healthcare startup and/or pursue a research, but the risk is too great - I need the attending salary to pay off the debt.

I’ve started thinking of the obligation to stick in industry to pay off my loans as an analog to having an organization like the US military pay for my degree. I have a few friends in the military studying at university for free. Their payment for those degrees essentially consists of X number years of obligatory post-degree military service, in addition to whatever military obligations during their study. [1] It’s a…

My brother did this - but went full-on. Deans list silver star at the airforce, pentagon, largest hosputal in the airforce, now is the director of the VA for Alaska.

Yeah they paid for everything - but it had its issues - but he was also exceedingly lucky.

So only do this if you want to do medical and military for a really long time.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#244

Post by amdavidson » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:55 PM UTC

naveen99 wrote: post #121

karmajunkie wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not giving it up—it's being paid by the interest on a rather large endowment.

They are giving up interest on a rather large endowment.

An endowment that wouldnt exist except for the free tuition.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#245

Post by elliotec » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:55 PM UTC

All school should be free, period. This is a great step but a long way to go.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#246

Post by hellllllllooo » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:56 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #217

maym86 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, reappropriate some of the US military budget ($717 billion). https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-approves-717b-defense-s...

We're going to really need that military when China, when we make degrees in underwater basketweaving free for everyone and China (which has a sensible approach to what education is and is not valuable) overtakes us economically and technologically.

Sure. Those invisible fighter jets that don't work were a great investment.

The US military is a publicly funded socialist entity. Interesting how that's ok for war but not for education.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#247

Post by dboreham » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

justonepost wrote: post #236

pitaj wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College is expensive because so much money is available in the forms of subsidies and loans. If the federal government stopped guaranteeing loans, and cut back on other subsidies, the cost of college would be much much lower.

No, College is expensive because it's horribly inefficient. Professors are paid terribly.

Administrators and swanky campuses are expensive.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#248

Post by Shivetya » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

pandler wrote: post #76

aabajian wrote: post #4

This is amazing. I graduated from medical school two years ago with $300,000 in debt. I'm a software developer on the side and would love to stop residency to try a healthcare startup and/or pursue a research, but the risk is too great - I need the attending salary to pay off the debt.

I’ve started thinking of the obligation to stick in industry to pay off my loans as an analog to having an organization like the US military pay for my degree. I have a few friends in the military studying at university for free. Their payment for those degrees essentially consists of X number years of obligatory post-degree military service, in addition to whatever military obligations during their study. [1] It’s a…

this is the one issue I never see proposed by the politicians trying to buy votes with free college. it should only be "free" provided you give back to society as prescribed by the education you receive. this might mean there is no free college for the profession you choose but so be it. we have it for teachers and there are other fields that would warrant investment as well.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#249

Post by amdavidson » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

CindyCarlson wrote: post #214

chimeracoder wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now lets please do the same for nurses and social workers who pay exorbitant tuition rates, too, yet get paid peanuts to be on the frontline of health care. I would not say nurses get paid "peanuts". Not many jobs would let you earn close to $100k in New York City with only a bachelor degree (or in some cases only a two-year associate degree)

4 year bachelor + 4 year md + 3-7 year residency ( hourly pay is ~ 1/4 a nurses on an hourly basis) + (optional) 1-4 year fellowship (cardiology, surg-sup specialties like trauma, hand surgery, etc) + (optional) 4 year PhD (20%+ of rad onc physicians have a PhD too.

Parent was referring to nurses...

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#250

Post by thaumasiotes » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

Rebelgecko wrote: post #138

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a wealthy Stanford alumni Grammar tip: In English, the word "alumnus" is typically declined as it would be in Latin. Especially amongst academics, I'd say. So if you're writing for that audience, the appropriate forms of "alumnus" are, I think, as follows [0]: "alumnus" - One male, or one person of unspecified sex. "alumna" - One female. "alumnae" - Multiple females. "alumni" - Multiple persons whose sex is all mal…

My Latin is a little rusty and mixing Latin grammar with English is doomed to be an exercise in futility, but IIRC that declension is only correct if you're using alumn- as an adjective for another noun which is masculine or feminine (which doesn't necessarily match the gender of the person, e.g. agricola is a masculine noun but can refer to a female farmer) If you're using it by itself as a noun, it's 2nd declension…

No, if you're using it by itself as a noun, it's 2nd declension when masculine and 1st declension when feminine, just like most nouns coming from adjectives and exhibiting obvious gender. Agricola and its cousins are exceptions, not the general case. Compare amicus / amica.

Alternatively, if you're using it by itself as an adjective, obviously it will take the appropriate gender. You don't need an explicit noun if you're happy with an implicit "man", "woman", or "thing".