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Six Months at Riot Games

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Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#241

Post by fl0wenol »

belorn wrote: post #178
lsmarigo wrote: post #40

Interesting that this one is doing well compared to the longer in-depth kotaku article a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710188 - fwiw that piece has since been corroborated by a ton of former riot employees on twitter. At the risk of sounding overly cynical, this is all true and everyone knows about it, people feign disgust at these articles but we're all complicit and understanding that this is…

Nothing will change because no one addressing or discussing the underlying causes for a culture that is drenched in gender roles and a corresponding social status ladder. All focus is being spent on either attacking "them" in as much generalized way as possible or defending "us" and the product of that fight is almost always status quo and further polarization. Imagine if we instead used classical scientific method o…

The problem is that there aren't enough people with spines working in these companies to smack the heads of their colleagues when they act out inappropriately because they think they have their "dream job" and don't want to attract negative attention to themselves. This is just as bad as the people who flagrantly act out.

Then the worst get get no negative feedback and continue to be assholes, and the whole culture / Overton window of the environment is perceived to be shifted in that direction.

People need to take the perceived risk and tell each other to grow the fuck up. The worse thing that can happen is you end up getting a new job somewhere else less dysfunctional that you needed but deluded yourself into not getting sooner.

Usually this works in your favor in the long term no matter what.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#242

Post by davvolun »

shawn wrote: post #119
lubonay wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again, you are not the company. If anybody speaks for the company as a whole, it's the CEO.

Sure, but bucketing a company as racist just because someone said the n word once in 2009 isn’t productive. It’s like calling pewdiepie racist.

Is your problem the labeling of the company as racist because the CEO is (presumably) racist, because I really don't see much of a difference between Pewdiepie "being racist" and Pewdiepie doing racist things (like using the n-word ... repeatedly). Is it any better if we say the company is ran by a racist and supports racist employees rather than itself "being racist"?

I don't know Marc DeForest or S2, I've never played HoN, I don't know the history here, and none of this directly matters to me, but my immediate comparison is to James Gunn/Dan Harmon -- both of them said some offensive things years ago, and both of them have apologized. Whether you think it was right for Disney to fire Gunn or for Adult Swim to retain Harmon, there's been atonement for that. Has DeForest atoned for his behavior, or is he continuing to make a lot of money being racist?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#243

Post by zetimana »

So the entire Dublin office is only using lazy American slurs now? No one said something like you damn wanker, git, twit, bieber, maggot, fucker, tosser, daft, chav, prat, knob, sod, ninny, oaf, muppet or slag?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#244

Post by davvolun »

shawn wrote: post #39
pjc50 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> uncontrollable It's not uncontrollable, you'd just rather have their money than ban them.

No, I assure you it’s uncontrollable. There are millions of games played per day on Dota. How do you propose to fairly evaluate each of them?

We can't stop everyone from killing, so let's just let everyone kill?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#245

Post by taurath »

zimablue wrote: post #148
trowawee wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an enormous gap between calling someone a sex worker and calling them a coal miner. There's an even-more-enormous gap between calling most of your team "bros" and calling the one woman on your team a sex worker. That is not in-group bonding, that's targeted, gender-based harassment.

Ho isn't used in the West as a pejorative, almost ever. It's far more often used playfully, and often by women themselves. Only a very offended culture would cause you to take it seriously. And honestly, Coal Mining is a job with like social status zero and sex work status -1. My dad actually was a coal miner and it wasn't great. Even if you mindlessly take it literally it's not that far off.

May I submit as evidence against that assertion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoPFkjF-Bdo

You don't get that reaction if its not a pejorative.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#246

Post by etrevino »

beart wrote: post #180
marsrover wrote: post #15

> While on a team outing, the same senior staff member messaged a new employee’s girlfriend on Facebook asking if she was “DTF” I would probably do something that would get me fired if this happened to me.

My question is, why did a senior staff member have access to a new employee's girlfriend anyway? I'm guessing the new employee friended the senior staff member on Facebook. This just seems like so many cross boundaries.

Does that really matter?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#247

Post by bradhe »

> urther examples of disrespect include when I argued that we shouldn’t let a cosplayer in blackface on our stage for a parade, keeping in mind that Riot is a global company. I was repeatedly called racist by my colleagues, who tried to convince me that it was an acceptable practice and I was overreacting.

This...can't possibly be true. Is this true??

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#249

Post by FlipperBucket »

belorn wrote: post #238
TooBrokeToBeg wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing will change because no one addressing or discussing the underlying causes What exactly are you describing? I don't see the same world you do. These stories are top concern and referenced in almost every forum from niche game communities to political discourse (ie everywhere). The underlying causes are assessed and measured in various countries (eg http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girl…

There is plenty of article like that which explore a single area of gender segregation and ask the question of why, and those that are close to a popular political subject like STEM get attention. What is missing is the larger context where those studies are cross referenced from multiple professions and applied with behavioral science to find common theory of underlying causes. In the context of this (and the linked…

I disagree. The larger context and underlying causes are not possible without the groundwork. The claims that it isn't being done reads like you just want the answers faster, while simultaneously implying that proper rigor is not being applied. I'm surprised that someone thinks this way. The studies in the nordic countries are far more aggressive than anything else in existence, but you seem unfamiliar. SMH

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#250

Post by FlipperBucket »

bradhe wrote: post #247

> urther examples of disrespect include when I argued that we shouldn’t let a cosplayer in blackface on our stage for a parade, keeping in mind that Riot is a global company. I was repeatedly called racist by my colleagues, who tried to convince me that it was an acceptable practice and I was overreacting. This...can't possibly be true. Is this true??

Classic postmodernist eventuality. Everyone is equal, but if you take issue in highlighting that a practice might offend by implying that there is a difference, you become the enemy in reverse... eg what, you think blackface is offensive to those people? What do you mean by THOSE people?

The lampoon in Tropic Thunder was eerily prescient.

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