The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.” • Hacker News Board

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#241

Post by kashyapc » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

Slightly related: I was recently remote-working from a peaceful book café and discovered this just-released book titled Book Towns[1] sitting sitting across me. I flipped through it and immediately bought it. Have a gander at it. From its description:

The so-called “Book Towns” of the world are dedicated havens of literature, and the ultimate dream of book lovers everywhere. Book Towns takes readers on a richly illustrated tour of the 40 semi-officially recognized literary towns around the world and outlines the history and development of each community, and offers practical travel advice.

And here's[2] an article (written by the author) about it in The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2018/apr/26/10-worlds-bes...

[1] https://www.quartoknows.com/books/9780711238930/Book-Towns.h...

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#242

Post by convolvatron » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

l9k wrote: post #141

sidlls wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free (except for the cost of bandwidth/internet access, including devices), instantly (unless internet service is poor or inconsistent or both), and anywhere (that has internet access), you mean. There's nothing improved about the argument, it's just obfuscated better.

Compare internet to library: Free: Transportation to go to your library (2x train ticket, or car + gas): minimum ~$5 / day so $60 a month, plus library card if not free Instantly: ~30 minutes to go, 30 minutes to get back home, depending on where you live. Worst internet connection need a few seconds. Anywhere: you have to physically go to the one library and hope you find the book you're looking for. Nowadays you ha…

I did research before the internet had all this content. I lived on the east coast, so it was possible for me to take a day trip to the LOC. there I could spent all day and a sackful of dimes to execute 4-5 cycles of following references before they shut down for the night. then carry my box full of photocopies with oddly clipped margins back to my office for digestion.

so sure, that sucked in comparison, but no one was monetizing my activity. i didn't have to struggle against a suggestion machine that had decided I was in a different field. no one was showing me advertisements.

no question that digitizing and indexing the worlds information has been a huge benefit, but there isn't any fundamental reason why we had to invite all these sleezy business people into our lives in exchange. they just latched onto a new thing, seeped into any available crack, and presented themselves as part of the package.

a post internet library would be global, noncommercial, unfettered access to as many resources possible (hi Brewster).

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#243

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #233

The "libraries provide Internet access for poor people" argument is incredibly disingenuous. To use an example: My county spends about $22 million per year on its library system. There's about 500,000 people, about 5.9% of whom are under the poverty line. For what we spend on libraries, we could pay for a 4G smartphone and 4G LTE service to literally every single man, woman, and child under the poverty line. And we w…

[deleted]

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#244

Post by neuromantik8086 » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

As someone who works in an academic library (which has very different needs from a public library), while I would disagree that libraries need "disruption" (which conjures up imagery of a librarian shushing me in the stacks for talking), there is a real need for tech talent. Most techies are lured away from programming for libraries by the private sector, which leaves us with an overabundance of clunky, expensive software with high technical debt.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#245

Post by rainbowmverse » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #233

The "libraries provide Internet access for poor people" argument is incredibly disingenuous. To use an example: My county spends about $22 million per year on its library system. There's about 500,000 people, about 5.9% of whom are under the poverty line. For what we spend on libraries, we could pay for a 4G smartphone and 4G LTE service to literally every single man, woman, and child under the poverty line. And we w…

You should go to a library some time.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#246

Post by triviatise » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

Austin just built a $150 million library which is a huge waste of money, if all it did was provide a storehouse for books.

However, it is a community center where the community can get together. That is one of the key charges of a city. Libraries are like parks, while parks let us recreate outdoors, libraries let us recreate intellectually indoors, and athletic centers let us recreate physically indoors.

The austin library has kitchens for cooking classes etc. Conference rooms for community groups, class rooms, etc.

We had a techshop, but they couldnt survive. Techshop is exactly the type of thing a library could provide. Access to machines and education on how to design and build things.

While I voted against the bond that funded the library, I recognize that there is definitely value that the "free market" cant provide.

The same goes for parks, hike/bike trails, nature preserves, museums, pools, athletic centers etc.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#247

Post by peckrob » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #57

chris_mc wrote: post #2

If you think libraries are useless, try going to one a few times and talk to the staff about the services they provide. I'd personally say libraries are one of the government organizations with the best return on investment, because education and information are almost invaluable. I'll fight a war over libraries, no joke.

> try going to one This is probably the best hint that they might not be so useful. The truth is most people never go to libraries.

My town just built a new library to replace the overcrowded old one a few years ago.

Just this week, they bought more property adjacent to the building because the new library is running out of parking.

That's a lot of people not going to a library. :)

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#248

Post by neuromantik8086 » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

As an aside, it's not super well publicized, but anyone in NYC can access Lynda.com for free via the NYPL.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#249

Post by defen » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #79

BurningFrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

We live in a fundamentally broken society today where rent-seekers want to break it further. No libraries would never be invented today. People like Carnegie who thrived in the industrial revolution recognized that and understood that education and social evolution was the path to prosperity and peace. When he studied recent history in his day, he probably pondered the decades of chaos and suffering kicked off by the…

> No libraries would never be invented today.

If libraries didn't already exist, I can't imagine the copyright lobby allowing them to be invented.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#250

Post by anoncoward111 » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:44 PM UTC

bsagdiyev wrote: post #71

pixl97 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Pretty much the tech version of "I am a W.A.S.P., I pretend everybody that has different economic, social, and cultural differences from me doesn't exist"

In case anyone else was confused like me: W.A.S.P. is White Anglo-Saxon Protestant ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant )

Fun fact about WASPs: back in the day, they used to hang signs that said "No Irish Need Apply". Even though Irish people are quite genetically similar to English people, and indeed today in America most bloodlines are mixed, the English still felt a need to classify Irish and Italians as "Ethnic White".