Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#241

Post by gukov » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

jcadam wrote: post #157

vijaybritto wrote: post #155

"Another “alt-Facebook” could be a nonprofit that uses that status to signal its dedication to better practices, much as nonprofit hospitals and universities do" -> Honestly, I don't think this would be sustainable to function as a social network. At least I don't think it would work in a capitalist society.

I've had the same thought. Charge a small monthly fee in lieu of running ads or selling user data. Might cut down on fake/spam accounts as well. But I don't think it would work (and I'd totally work on something like this if I thought it would). People say they care about privacy, but when you present them with the option of paying $5/mo for a service that respects their privacy or using a "free" service that tracks…

Most people will follow others, and if everyone's paying $5 they'll gladly pay it too. It's getting that critical mass of paying users is what's hard. I wonder if it's viable to have government subsidize somehow...

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#242

Post by jenkinsj » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

I'm captivated by the phrase "free content (sic) is the creature, the servant and indeed the prostitute of merchandizing". -Walter Lippmann

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#243

Post by ravenstine » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

NY Times was among the numerous media companies that slobbered over Facebook for years and gave them free publicity. And now I'm supposed to listen to them when they say to replace Facebook.

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#244

Post by sf_rob » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

xiphias wrote: post #83

herbst wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually when I creep these people out by confronting them with personal details of their life (which I simply snapped of public Facebook data) they actually are creeped out. So while yours is a interesting thought I highly doubt a lot of people Actually understand the full issue.

It sounds interesting, can you give a concrete example?

While I don't approve of some (most?) of their antics, Phone Losers of America did a series where they "prank called" users of Foursquare and started reading off details about their personal lives. Pretty scary stuff that puts things in perspective.

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#245

Post by cgoughnour » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

corobo wrote: post #169

pnutjam wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody check out https://mewe.com

> No spying. No cookies. No data sharing. How do you stay logged in if there's no cookies? It also looks like they try to do too much. Cure-alls cure nothing (thanks for the quip, Sawbones podcast!)

You can implement sessions with session ids in URLs in a relatively straightforward way.

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#246

Post by raquo » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #194

quanticle wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If she's happy with this level of privacy though, what's the problem? The problem is that it's not just her privacy she's violating, but the privacy of everyone else, including OP, whose photos get shared by said cousin. When I got back from a trip I took abroad with my family earlier this year, my friends mentioned that they'd seen the photos that "I" had posted to Facebook. Except... I hadn't posted any photos to…

"When I got back from a trip I took abroad with my family earlier this year, my friends mentioned that they'd seen the photos that "I" had posted to Facebook. Except... I hadn't posted any photos to Facebook. I have a Facebook account, but I deliberately have a very minimal presence on it. What my friends were seeing was the photos that my mother had posted, and which I had been tagged in. My privacy was violated by…

You can't actually opt out of tagging anymore, you can only opt out of tags appearing on your timeline, but people can still see the photos and see that you are tagged in them.

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#247

Post by feelin_googley » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

"These days, you might get more applause for not being on social media than for reaching a follower milestone in Europe's liberal hubs such as Berlin or Paris.

...

The mechanisms used by Cambridge Analytica and the "malicious actors" cited by Facebook appear to have been legal and do not constitute a data hack, but rather a deliberate exploitation of information through tools or loopholes Facebook itself provided in the past.

...

At least two foreign governments, Australia and Germany, threatened or launched investigations into the practices on Thursday.

...

Meanwhile, in India, where more than a half-million users are estimated to be affected, the allegations have resulted in a governmental request to Facebook and Cambridge Analytica for more detailed information, with a Saturday deadline.

Even though India is now Facebook's biggest market - ahead of the United States - no Indian media outlets were able to ask questions in a conference call with CEO Mark Zuckerberg on Wednesday.

The heavy U.S. focus immediately triggered criticism because privacy advocates are still looking into reports that Cambridge Analytica may have used Facebook data to influence Indian politics, as well.

...

German justice minister Katarina Barley already called for an E.U.-wide investigation into the misuse of Facebook's data by Cambridge Analytica and other companies on Thursday.

"Facebook has gambled away people's trust," Barley said.

...

But in Europe, Germany's justice minister and others already fear that the latest regulations aren't enough."

Source:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/05...

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#248

Post by corobo » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

cgoughnour wrote: post #245

corobo wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No spying. No cookies. No data sharing. How do you stay logged in if there's no cookies? It also looks like they try to do too much. Cure-alls cure nothing (thanks for the quip, Sawbones podcast!)

You can implement sessions with session ids in URLs in a relatively straightforward way.

I was being somewhat pedantic in my previous reply, I realise they mean tracking cookies and the likes

As for putting session IDs in URLs I would not advise that in any way, that's one unsanitized href away from Google being logged in as and indexing your user's private account data if done badly and a nasty bout of session fixation if done less badly. More information here: https://security.stackexchange.com/a/14094

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#249

Post by ytjohn » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

p49k wrote: post #104

Has anyone seen a product that was functional, polished, and enjoyable to use that would be capable of replacing Facebook? I haven't. Diaspora, Mastodon, Ello are the only things that I can think of, and none of them come close to matching the basic functionality and the "it just works" factor of Facebook. Maybe someone should put in some resources to create a polished product and see what happens? It doesn't even ha…

I'm planning to setup Hubzilla as a forum/wiki for my local radio group and local tech community. Hubzilla might not have everything right (I would prefer the scuttlebut/patchwork approach), but it definitely checks most boxes for me. The key one being Nomadic identity - they can export everything they've ever posted and upload it to another server. This is really crucial (not for my club, but for other groups). Hubzilla also federates with ostatus, diospara, gnusoc, frendica, mastadon, and others.

Hubzilla only has a few thousand users. In a social media world, that's a rounding error. So my thought is that people should setup Hubzilla for a targeted group. Get an active community of dozens or possibly hundreds of people, and if they like the platform, encourage them to invite other people and start additional communities. Or find communities through the federation.

https://project.hubzilla.org/page/hubzilla/hubzilla-project

https://medium.com/we-distribute/the-do-everything-system-an...

Re: Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It

#250

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

Slansitartop wrote: post #193

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just not a reasonable expectation. Either you give the control over the data to a central authority, or you give the control to the user, you can't have both.

> Either you give the control over the data to a central authority, or you give the control to the user [receiver?], you can't have both. No, there are middle grounds, such as a decentralized/local authorities. E.g. you send a hyperlink to the message on your server, rather than the message itself. Theoretically, you've still ceded control to the receiver, but practically, in most cases, you haven't.

Well, yes, but decentralized "authorities" still have an incentive to do what their users want, and if there is a market for "no remote cancellation" accounts, then they will exist. It's quite different from one central authority that would be acting against its own interest if it did that.