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Guide to Slack import and export tools

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Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#241

Post by hvass »

peterkelly wrote: post #194
tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

Hope this doesn't sound too harsh but your reply comes off as extremely self-centered. What about looking—at the very least—at it from a legal perspective? It's not like lawsuits and aspects related to discovery haven't been in the tech news lately.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#242

Post by dsacco »

ravitation wrote: post #211
dsacco wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but your chosen solution is totalitarian surveillance in the workplace because an intern got offended? Sigh Totalitarianism is a socio-political paradigm, not a stand-in word to describe things you think constitute surveillance in the context of a business. Companies require the capability to maintain auditable records of employee activity on the information channels they own and manage. Your company is not recordi…

> socio-political paradigm Sigh. And workplaces are socio-political contexts... I didn't find it very difficult to get past his hyperbole, and I frankly find it hard to believe that you did. It isn't hard to argue that monitoring channels that even just imply privacy, regardless of whether they take place in the workplace (or in academia, or at home) is a violation of personal rights - regardless of the fact that you…

> And workplaces are socio-political contexts

They're not governments, they're companies.

> monitoring channels that even just imply privacy, regardless of whether they take place in the workplace (or in academia, or at home) is a violation of personal rights

It isn't, unless your definition of "personal rights" includes "things I personally want which are neither codified in, nor protected by, laws."

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#243

Post by enzo1982 »

Jenssen1234 wrote: post #192
yiiii wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is illegal in many countries to access somebody's personal communication even if it uses eg. a corporate email address?

It's not, not in Europe, not anywhere. Saying it a couple of times doesnt make it true. Your boss can read your emails and most likely already does. This is exactly the same with any internal messaging and it's perfectly legal in the workspace.

The European Court of Human Rights recently ruled that an employee's communication may not be monitored without prior notice and without specific reasons. [1]

[1] https://www.coe.int/en/web/human-rights-rule-of-law/-/echr-m...

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#244

Post by pbhjpbhj »

cechmaster wrote: post #142
random4369 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an infinite space of solutions to your particular problem, but your chosen solution is totalitarian surveillance in the workplace because an intern got offended? I avoid workplaces which force shit like this. So do all the good developers I know, because they're people who can afford to be choosy. Bullies are pretty adept at functioning in these environments. Instead of harassing on monitored DMs, they'll mak…

I think you're mixing up the way businesses run and how society should run. Two different things.

It's getting well OT but why should there be a distinction? Should we forgo morals in favour of profits.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#245

Post by flurdy »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

> This is all very standard corporate IT stuff that you need for HR and legal reasons.

I doubt that, but it is country dependant. In some of the countries I have worked in it is quite the opposite. You get drilled for legal purposes you are not to look at people's personal emails and if possible DMs. Mostly as it is potentially illegal. I have not worked in the US though.

I was however unaware that in Norway then can access your email in exceptional circumstances: https://www.datatilsynet.no/en/privacy-and-society/personver... It seems in case of gross breach of duty, the employee has to be notified, then they can access their work email.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#246

Post by Froyoh »

ravitation wrote: post #211
dsacco wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but your chosen solution is totalitarian surveillance in the workplace because an intern got offended? Sigh Totalitarianism is a socio-political paradigm, not a stand-in word to describe things you think constitute surveillance in the context of a business. Companies require the capability to maintain auditable records of employee activity on the information channels they own and manage. Your company is not recordi…

> socio-political paradigm Sigh. And workplaces are socio-political contexts... I didn't find it very difficult to get past his hyperbole, and I frankly find it hard to believe that you did. It isn't hard to argue that monitoring channels that even just imply privacy, regardless of whether they take place in the workplace (or in academia, or at home) is a violation of personal rights - regardless of the fact that you…

sigh

That was a long read

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#247

Post by tptacek »

How is this possibly news? Besides the fact than Slack has let owners read DMs through compliance export since forever, most company Slacks authenticate via mail (usually Google mail), which your employer controls.

This is no different than company emails, which (I hope this isn't surprising) your employer can also read.

Don't have personal conversations on your company Slack!

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#248

Post by Piskvorrr »

s3nnyy wrote: post #105
tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

> "Compare that to our email, where I can go into anyone's messages immediately if need-be. This is all very standard corporate IT stuff that you need for HR and legal reasons." Wow, THAT is highly illegal in Europe.

Well...most work contracts I've signed said something like "working here is not mandatory and we may need access to the mailbox (which we're providing to you for your work duties), such access cases are logged and externally audited. Sign here to agree, take that door to disagree." As long as this is agreed beforehand, I'm not aware of a European state banning it - this is somewhat different from "let's go digging around the computers out of curiosity". (I am in GMT+1, for the reference)

I've seen a situation where this was invoked - employee was fired for an unrelated issue, only kept some documentation in their inbox for whatever reason. Without such a provision, our options would have been a) legally questionable, b) up shit creek sans paddle.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#249

Post by netcraft »

protomyth wrote: post #209
peterkelly wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

> abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees Abusing your privileged access?!? You do realize some of us are required to access those communications for a variety of reasons especially because a threat is happening? Also, I don't get a choice when the lawyer shows up and says we need to look at X's accou…

> because a threat is happening

because an "alleged" threat is happening. Still, cause for gathering evidence, sure.

> I don't get a choice when the lawyer shows up and says we need to look at X's account

And now with this, they'll use a different communication method that you dont have access to and now youre back to square one. The best you can hope for is that theyre ignorant of these changes so you can catch them.

> ... at the point I am asked to look at your account, I get the feeling you are on your way out anyway or will shortly have a lawyer or the police contacting you.

ah, guilty until proven innocent

> The communication systems you use as an employee are not yours.

This is true, and I dont think slack is necessarily wrong in providing this access - but you shouldnt assume that communications that the user doesnt want the company to be privy to is necessarily malicious or illegal.

If you are having legitimate complaints about your job and you want to vent or validate your concerns before proceeding, you might want to have a private conversation with a coworker - and you might legitimately be afraid that your unfiltered, undiplomatic private conversation might be taken out of context or retaliated against.

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