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Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

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Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#241

Post by sulam »

daodedickinson wrote: post #91
sjg007 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was driving a car and saw the pedestrian ahead of time walking or trying to cross I would have slowed down and changed lanes away fro them or at least moved far right if safe. Same thing when you pass bicycles. Change lanes away if possible or at the very least give more buffer. You can never tell what someone may do so you should anticipate the unexpected.

Yep, after a friend had someone try to use her van to commit suicide I am paranoid and get ready to avoid every pedestrian. I don't know what I'd do if I lived somewhere with many pedestrians.

You should be paranoid about pedestrians it turns out, even if they aren’t suicidal. You are in a pedestrian-killing machine, after all. Being paranoid about this is no less reasonable than being sure to keep your chemicals and sharp knives out of the reach of toddlers if you have them both in your home.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#242

Post by sulam »

bitcurious wrote: post #74
branchan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the woman suddenly walked in front of the car at the last minute, I don't see how the situation could have been avoided, no matter how fast a computer is able to process the information from the sensors. There was also a driver behind the wheel, so it would suggest that humans are just as clueless.

An accident might have been unavoidable, but fatality is the big question. The risk of pedestrian fatality jumps by ~4x between 30mph and 40mph.[0] So the question is - did the car start breaking as soon as possible? As an aside, that statistic is why I never speed in pedestrian zones. https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/relationship_between_speed_risk_...

Based on the NTSB pictures of the vehicle as well as police statements, it doesn’t seem that the vehicle tried to brake.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#243

Post by asdbffg »

philwelch wrote: post #169
qplex wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There definitely exists a sort of pre-cognitive human quality to traffic. Sometimes you just slow down on a subconscious hunch without any information on that particular situation. Or you might be very conscious not to slow down if you're driving a motorcycle in Asia in heavy traffic trying to make a turn with a huge truck barreling behind you. There are massive differences in road cultures between countries, and it…

That’s just human intuition, which is trained over time through experience. Which is also how machine learning works, so it’s not quite clear that humans have a sustainable advantage here.

Machine learning also has tendency to unlearn things and corrupt it's own models when left unaided.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#244

Post by kaitai »

to3m wrote: post #207
bfuller wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol seems like your sense of humor is not being well received here

Well it's more sideways, perhaps even caustic, something like that, I'd say, rather than humorous per se. Still... stiff upper lip. Though I can't believe I'm getting downvoted for reminding people not to kill anybody while behind the wheel :-o

You're upset for someone using the word "ped" for pedestrian while using a word that's got a dictionary definition of being vulgar and offensive for women? I have to say I'm rather confused. I feel I'm being trolled.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#245

Post by rhacker »

retsibsi wrote: post #78
Mantipath wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. 3 MPH would have made a difference. So would 3 MPH less after that, and 3MPH more... heck, if it had been going 2 MPH total she'd probably be fine! In the aftermath of a front collision it would always have been safer if the car had been going slightly slower, regardless of the speed limit. The strangest part of watching this story unfold has been discovering that some people have faith that speed limits are an…

I see this attitude a lot, but it seems strange to me. Of course any hard line will be somewhat arbitrary, but we need to draw hard lines if we want unambiguous, consistently enforceable laws. What's special about speed limits that makes it okay to ignore them? To me they seem analogous to age-of-consent laws, which of course are not perfectly chosen for every individual -- and of course there's no magical change tha…

I somewhat agree, I keep fighting this on HN - but speed limits are for two categories of people - the people driving, and the people expecting those drivers to be going a specific speed (or range). And 40 - 50 is not a range that is ever safe to put near people.

I grew up near (in the bay area) Almaden Expy where the signs post 45 (which means that in the bay area the limit is really 55). Just search for "Almaden Expy killed" in google and let me know if that's a safe street.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#246

Post by dclowd9901 »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #121

There's at least two other trends that are, IMO, more to blame. SUVs in general for one, and the proliferation of particular mixed-use road antipattern. SUVs is an easy one. When an SUV hits a bicyclist, motorcyclist, or pedestrian, the unfortunate person tends to go through rather than the over they'd be subjected to by a sedan. Motorcycle accident stats bear this out - the overall accident rate has gone down as peo…

If this piece of road is the one I’m thinking of, there’s nary a crossing area for at least a mile. Phoenix isn’t known for walkability, and this isn’t downtown Tempe.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#247

Post by danso »

phyzome wrote: post #120
danso wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a pretty clear fail. And yet the police were so quick to say that camera footage indicates that Uber was likely not at fault. It was so quick that it makes me inclined to think it's pretty obvious. However, after the SF Chronicle published its exclusive interview with the Tempe's chief of police, the Tempe Police PR person had to issue a statement that, "Tempe Police Department does not determine fault in ve…

I mean... the police just make shit up all the time. And Arizona was very happy to attract Uber with their regulation-free state law. The fact that they came out with a statement instead of saying "we don't comment on ongoing investigations" makes it even more shady.

I don't agree with the sentiment that it happens all the time (but don't disagree that it's happened more than a few times), but I do think police are much less likely to make something up if they know (and have seen) the camera evidence. No point in saying something (the day after the incident) that can so easily be contradicted later.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#248

Post by romwell »

bmelton wrote: post #189
xbmcuser wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police are comparing what would have happened if the driver was human. But Ai cars are supposed to have larger range of view. I personally feel waymo car would have probably noted and avoided the woman. And with lidar it's being dark is actually no excuse as it wouldn't matter.

I mean, there was a human in the car too, and the human's statement was that the first sign that there might be a collision was after the collision occurred.

Right, because "I was bored out of my mind and wasn't paying attention until an actual crash happened" is a statement that the human would have totally made if that were the case.

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#249

Post by [deleted] »

mirimir wrote: post #79
danso wrote: post #44

The NYT just published a graphic that purports to show the location of the vehicle and the victim: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/20/us/self-drivi... This is the first report I've seen that indicates the Uber AV was in the right lane. Remember that the victim was crossing from left to right, and that all of the visible damage on the AV is on the right-side bumper. It's very hard to imagine a scenario in…

Right, so now she's crossing three lanes. So that's about 9 meters. At 1-3 meters per second for her, and 17 meters/second for the Uber SUV, it should have seen her 3-9 seconds (50-150 meters) before impact. That's a pretty clear fail. I wonder what the Uber's field of view is. At what distance should it have detected stuff about 9 meters off track? But she did likely walk out from landscaping. So perhaps she initial…

[deleted]

Re: Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Uber

#250

Post by mirimir »

to3m wrote: post #207
bfuller wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol seems like your sense of humor is not being well received here

Well it's more sideways, perhaps even caustic, something like that, I'd say, rather than humorous per se. Still... stiff upper lip. Though I can't believe I'm getting downvoted for reminding people not to kill anybody while behind the wheel :-o

Arguably, you're getting downvoted for abrasiveness and name calling.
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