Get hired in some software corporation. You'll be amazed how easy the work is and how well it pays. The only motivation you'll need is to get up in the morning and haul you ass to the office. After few months of what will feel like vacation to you, in the company of fresh smart people, you'll start to get bored, even despite doing more hobby programming in your free time then you done in a long time. But at this poin…
>As a side note don't ever play MOBA games. You'll get hooked so bad you'll have very little time to do any personal development and will have trouble enjoying any other games you enjoyed previously. 5000+ hours of DOTA2, started playing DOTA in 2005, played lots of HON and LOL too, confirmed. I was able to quit for 6 months, which was the longest I'd ever stopped playing, but relapsed recently. I don't even enjoy pl…
Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
241–250 of 382 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
#242It sounds like a trivial realization, but when it hits you juuust right it's life-changing. I think rather than tactics and strategies you need to spend some time in self-reflection and think about those things. Ever since then I've been able to self-motivate and work hard, even when I don't want to. (I guess you shouldn't call it motivation but rather discipline.)
FWIW I do think it's a "regular case" of procrastination. Even a regular case of procrastination can have devastating effects on your ambition, and procrastination is not easy to fight.
Depending on your personality type, you also may do well to make more commitments, not less. If you know you have to work on another project this weekend then you'll have to get the first project out of the way this week.
Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
#243You are normal. Over the years I have learned that the internet makes us all distracted and that it's a problem many of my peers are wrestling with today. I was in a meeting just this week where our new product line manager started joking about how easy it was in a moment of distraction to open a news site with the intention of just spending a minute there and end up losing half an hour of productivity. I told him I…
I'm old enough to have worked before there was an Internet (well...I remember when we first got a Usenet feed via 9.6k dialup, early in my career).
Based on my recollection of those days, I'm not sure it's all the Internet. There were other distractions prior to that. But definitely the Internet made the frequency and magnitude of the problem worse.
Some of my best work has been done on plane flights (before they had Internet).
Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
#244Get hired in some software corporation. You'll be amazed how easy the work is and how well it pays. The only motivation you'll need is to get up in the morning and haul you ass to the office. After few months of what will feel like vacation to you, in the company of fresh smart people, you'll start to get bored, even despite doing more hobby programming in your free time then you done in a long time. But at this poin…
>As a side note don't ever play MOBA games. You'll get hooked so bad you'll have very little time to do any personal development and will have trouble enjoying any other games you enjoyed previously. 5000+ hours of DOTA2, started playing DOTA in 2005, played lots of HON and LOL too, confirmed. I was able to quit for 6 months, which was the longest I'd ever stopped playing, but relapsed recently. I don't even enjoy pl…
Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
#245I can relate a lot. I'm still burning through self-motivation hacks at 35, some of which are helping while most don't. Eventually, the hack with by far the largest impact (which brought me to currently being cofounder and CTO of one of the more successful German startups) was realizing that while I simply suck at self-motivating, I never had a problem getting stuff done when working for others. I effortlessly produce…
I have a bad back. By far the best treatment I got is regular exercise. Later, because of vanity, and because I was always a skinny nerd, I started adding exercises that weren't exactly critical. Okay, I acquired "runner's knee", so it was initially squats. But there's no strict need for push-ups, cycling, pull-ups. I do those for vanity. I like the way I look compared to my peers, even much younger ones. I sweat like hell during some exercises, like when I do 5 sets of squats 3 times a week. But I manage to pull through.
...and... at some point I realized, if I have (or just developed) enough willpower to persist with these often exhausting exercises, why can't I apply the same persistence to practicing programming ? It turns out... I can. Working out HARD is difficult. So is programming. Working out taught me to not get discouraged doing things I know have merit. To keep trying, and use different approaches if the last one didn't work. There's a bit of overlap between working out and programming.
It helped that the other alternative I have is software testing. Reading through the ISTQB materials, and writing some tests I realized this stuff bores me almost to tears. Software testing is important and useful, yes. But it's also a lot of copy&paste work, boilerplates, and you're discouraged from using creative code. Do Repeat Yourself. I make many errors when using copy&paste in code, because monotony puts me to sleep. I forget to update some variable name. Some programming languages, like Rust, have compilers picky enough to reduce the need for software testing. And at the end of the day, you're looking for holes in someone else's work, and the skills you pick up can't be later used in a fun side project.
The bottom line: regular exercise can change your perspective. Realizing other alternatives are boring can change your perspective.
Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
#246I can relate a lot. I'm still burning through self-motivation hacks at 35, some of which are helping while most don't. Eventually, the hack with by far the largest impact (which brought me to currently being cofounder and CTO of one of the more successful German startups) was realizing that while I simply suck at self-motivating, I never had a problem getting stuff done when working for others. I effortlessly produce…
Have you ever tried medication? For me personally it's even worse when working for others. Even went to the therapist, but she said they don't prescribe stuff like Adderall (don't even have it), and solution is just therapy in form of talking, which had zero effect (she asked questions I asked myself when I was 15). Really curious about Adderall.
I wouldn't rule out therapy or its methods, just as you wouldn't rule out software developers because the first one you ever hired seemed to do a crappy job (and to take the analogy a step further, we know that in software the crap is often an input of the client or in their perceptual apparatus).
I had tried several therapists without much success and had stopped pursuing it, and then I happened across a good one. It was life-changing. Only my parents and spouse have done more for me.
One thing I learned about therapy is that there is method to the 'madness'. Some things I thought were ridiculous going in, I later learned were my blind spots. Sometimes they took approaches that seemed pointless or infuriated me, but worked out well. You need to be ready for that kind of change, which means challenging beliefs you hold dearly and implicitly. It's not fun and it's not simple, like a pill. If it was easy or comfortable, you would have done it yourself.
Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
#247Sometimes I get a second wind and want to do intense thinking later in the evening, but usually I ignore it to avoid burnout.
I fought it for a long time, but it's just how I'm wired.
Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
So here's a question - what if I am of this disposition but I have a lot of ideas? And I would not be satisfied with life unless I'm pursuing them? Is there a way to reach out to find people to be in charge of me to execute on my ideas? Does anybody want to do that? (These are not necessarily businesses)
Sure, if you can pay a CEO salary. That is literally the job of a CEO. He executes. People argue that money is never as good a motivator as true passion is. I am not taking sides on that matter, it is just something to consider.
Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
I certainly don't mind being an average 1x programmer, if I don't have to take drugs to better my performance. I don't like coffee, nor alcohol, and I never put any smoke in my mouth. When my diet is OK and my body gets the required exercise, the mind works best.
I tried all variations on the theme - different sleep patterns (getting up early at fixed time, waking naturally), diets (low carb, no processed food with excess sugar etc etc, workouts (running, working with weights), no coffee, just 1 cup of coffee, max 2-3 cups of coffee... sadly without significant effect. What I also notice that my lack of focus is not tied just to productivity - I can't even finish Lord of the…
Have you ever been burned out? I wouldn't work 90 hours per week these days unless someone was paying me a really serious amount of money. For my current rates, I find it not unethical to work at a more relaxed pace, procrastinating, really maybe working for about 3 hours per day.
You might be unsure of the resulting reward from doing something. When I was an undergraduate, I've experienced poverty and hunger multiple times, which was proved to be (ironically) a great motivator. Unless off course I couldn't find a client to do a project for so I'd find myself in some serious depression instead.
I was (am?) a Matrix fan myself, but I wouldn't find it rewarding to rewatch the films or the anime again. I like re-reading the interpretations once in 2 or 3 years or so (I believe Neo is a program himself and Zion is also a simulation).
On the other hand, I binge-watched the two seasons of Stranger Things when the second one came out. Did I like it? Yes. Would I rewatch it, no. There's no reward in doing so.
I hate to give advice on the internet, as the variables that define each of us are haotic, but try to get along with yourself. Boredom might be a coping/survival mechanism of our bodies to not burn out (the reward must be greater than the energy/time you dedicated to a project).
Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?
#250How often do you think about your goals? How important are they to you?
I was in your shoes for a long time, and the way I got past it was to think consciously about the end-result on a regular basis.
Do you want to skate by on your niche skills and watch as other harder workers get the bigger/better contracts from your contacts in the future?
Do you want to passively step through the motions of life and regret not trying to start that business when you're 60?
Do you want to look back and wish you had learned & built more instead of drinking beer and playing COD?
At the end of the day, you are 100% responsible for your own decisions and path in life. You aren't going to be able to artificially motivate yourself forever (as you are discovering). You have to find something that truly motivates you.