Americans are spending less on clothing • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#241

Post by PeterisP » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:56 PM UTC

dagw wrote: post #142

eesmith wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a business environment. Compare https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sweden+business+office&t=ffsb&iax=... with https://duckduckgo.com/?q=germany+business+office&t=ffsb&iar... . The people in the Germany pictures are more likely to be wearing a dress shirt. The people who wear a business jacket in the Sweden pictures are less likely to be wearing a tie. My experience is also that people (or at least managers) in the UK also…

Wearing a suit is only weakly correlated with dressing well or caring about your looks. Someone wearing jeans and a t-shirt can appear better dressed and more caring about their looks than someone wearing a suit.

In an environment where it's expected/acceptable to come in a lousy suit, someone caring about their looks and well dressed in nice jeans and t-shirt would be considered absolutely inappropriately dressed and would be requested to "dress up" next time.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#242

Post by mbrameld » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:56 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #232

rb808 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't explain why people in the poorest countries dress better than Americans. People living in the slums of India/Nigeria/Brazil are more likely to have a collared shirt and dress pants than an American going to work in an office.

This. I see two things happening here: (1) American spending less on clothing and (2) Americans having less self-pride in their attire and presentation. I've spent a fair amount of time in Latin American countries, and a real sure-fire way to identify tourists is to look for people poorly-dressed or those who look like they just don't care about how they look. E.g., despite much of Mexico being quite hot, you will al…

Is a vertical row of buttons the dividing line between caring about appearance and not caring about appearance? Or can we say that as a society we decide what is acceptable to wear in public? If it's socially acceptable to wear shorts and a t shirt, and I wear nice, clean shorts and a t shirt, your conclusion is that I don't care about how I look? That's some serious mental gymnastics. You could reasonably say that I look like I have different clothing preferences.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#243

Post by kimdcmason » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

dnate wrote: post #42

TomK32 wrote: post #31

European here, pullover from the thrift store for €5,50 five-pocket pants from the sale for €29,99 same for the extra-long sleeves shirt, the socks were 30% off but at €7 still pricey, my sailing shoes (I'll just pretend it didn't just start snowing outside) are the most expensive thing I wear.

congratulations on supporting child labor

The vast majority of clothes are made in low wage countries because economics. Putting others down because they dared buy inexpensive clothing is sanctimonious claptrap.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#244

Post by toxik » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #233

freejulian wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

The article mentions that despite prices going down, not up, people are still buying fewer clothes. Not sure if they are counting skus or expenditure, my guess is expenditure, so if prices per article are going down (H&M vs Levi's), then of course total spending on clothing will go down, even while consumption remains the same. In any case, to me it means less waste.

It seems to me that this inexpensive clothing is of very poor quality, and that quality has been declining over time.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#245

Post by prostoalex » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

coliveira wrote: post #179

freejulian wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

Bingo. In a capitalist society, the better explanation is almost always an economic one. It boggles my mind that so many people find it difficult to understand this simple concept. Not only wages are stagnant, but the population is under high increases in housing and health care costs, which are not accounted in official inflation. Add this to the reduced welfare state, and you have the perfect recipe for this situat…

Why did the "experiences" (travel, dining out) and "digital media" (software, media purchases, data plans) grow substantially, as the article mentions?

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#246

Post by timkpaine » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

FranOntanaya wrote: post #115

utellme wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I'm feeling just opposite on your phrase "clothes last for ages" if you speaking about its quality. 10 yr old jeans looks ugly but their endurance is much better than modern ones has. And if you wash your clothes so often, it should last few months before became completely garbage.

That'd be survivor bias. My average jeans a decade or two ago would start tearing off at the buttonhole or taint seam after a year or so.

"Taint Seam" you put hilarious words to something we all know haha. Especially those of us prone to blowing out the crotch of our jeans.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#247

Post by timkpaine » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

darpa_escapee wrote: post #5

Hextinium wrote: post #2

I think a major contributor that isn't pointed out in the article is that clothes can last forever. I haven't needed to step into a department store in over two years not because I don't want to but because I don't need to. I wear the same clothes year-round and they have worked for the last 3-4 years before they even start to show wear. The only thing I need are new shoes and socks. Heck now with microfiber underwea…

Higher end clothes last longer. However, what is availably priced for most people are poorly made clothes that will last a year if they don't fall apart in the wash before then. Take a look at what's available at Kohl's, Walmart, Old Navy etc and you will see what I mean.

There's a sweet spot between expensive and designer though. The best quality often comes from rather obscure brands.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#248

Post by jimmies » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #225

joncrane wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I diagree. Phones only go up to about $900. But watches go up to the tens of thousands. Laptops only go up to about what, $5k or so? But jackets go up way more. Tech is more of a "as a bare minimum, I need to have the top of the line." Additionally, increased expenditure on tech does actually give increased utility in the form of performance. (even though it's reduced bang for buck). However, a $50,000 watch doesn't…

I bet my >$700 Barbour works better than a cheap one from Walmart - and as a bonus it will out live me :-)

You're just illustrating the point of the post you replied to: What do you need it to outlive you for?

Plus, you can't compare something to the cheap one from Walmart, because the Walmart one sets an extremely low bar to pass in terms of quality or even quality/price.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#249

Post by maerF0x0 » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #232

rb808 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't explain why people in the poorest countries dress better than Americans. People living in the slums of India/Nigeria/Brazil are more likely to have a collared shirt and dress pants than an American going to work in an office.

This. I see two things happening here: (1) American spending less on clothing and (2) Americans having less self-pride in their attire and presentation. I've spent a fair amount of time in Latin American countries, and a real sure-fire way to identify tourists is to look for people poorly-dressed or those who look like they just don't care about how they look. E.g., despite much of Mexico being quite hot, you will al…

It's not "self pride" its a bucking of the trend of what "looks good" .

It's not that I cannot afford to wear suits. Its that I dont like suits. Add in the marginal cost difference and I'd rather wear a tshirt. It's the market punishing the inefficiency of requiring your workers (or date) to dress in a certain manner when it adds no true value.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#250

Post by ryanianian » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

dopeboy wrote: post #237

ryanianian wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I see two things happening here: (1) American spending less on clothing and (2) Americans having less self-pride in their attire and presentation. I've spent a fair amount of time in Latin American countries, and a real sure-fire way to identify tourists is to look for people poorly-dressed or those who look like they just don't care about how they look. E.g., despite much of Mexico being quite hot, you will al…

I was in Mexico last week near Cancun and observed exactly that. I always saw the locals with jeans and a nice shirt. There's no way I could do that in 85F weather.

On more recent trips I've been trying to adopt more local customs including not wearing shorts. It's actually not that bad - if you choose lighter fabrics and don't lay around in the sun on the beach you may not mind pants. Added benefit of sun protection too.

Then there are locals who wear heavy black-cotton pants and poly-blend long-sleeve button-up shirts while walking around the asphalt streets on hot-humid days. They make me want to pass out :)

I think most of ^^ are actually corporate dress-codes (plus perhaps lack of resources to buy non-work clothes) but I've not had reason to strike up a conversation about that.