Would you say that it's more likely that the rich are using the Illuminati OR the Greek Fraternity to collectively conspiring against the common man?
In my gated community the rich actually collude to keep the wages for maids, gardener etc low. When I moved to this place as a bachelor and attended couple of pool side parties I was surprised this was also one of the topics along with the ones like how bad Real played in last match.
OMG talking about association football that's for Essex barrow boys who think they have made it and for 1st gen middle class types who think they are cool for following a team from the plush catered boxes.
I spent a summer in NYC a few years ago. While living in NYC I did get a flavor of higher class living with some roommates of mine. It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't. However, this is one issue that's hard to put solely on the foot of the rich or a broader system. Passing in many avenues, not just by class, is really deciding you want to be the…
> I think rather than teach young children how to hold spoons ... we should just teach improv skills I think there's an argument for a little of both, by way of giving them tools to fit in at multiple levels (classes, call it what you will). Then it's their choice to fit in or stand out as they feel best in the widest range of situations. Of course knowing which of 5 sets of cutlery is for what shouldn't actually mat…
> Of course knowing which of 5 sets of cutlery is for what shouldn't actually matter much..
Outside in. If you can't tell, look at what your neighbors are using.
I can't speak for OP, but a big one is how to deal with the check at a restaurant. For people who are lower/lower middle class (or at the least not financially secure), you pass around a receipt and take turns deciding who owes what. In the middle/upper middle class, there is an unspoken rule the check gets split, and anything else is awkward. In the upper class, oftentimes one person will pay for the check and it's…
> In the upper class, oftentimes one person will pay for the check and it's awkward to object. That's how it's in my country for all classes, poor or rich. When friends go out, someone and pays for all the others (and someone might ask to chip in or pay themselves, but the first one doesn't take no for an answer). Next time you see each other, the other person can pay, but no one keeps any very specific tally ("I pai…
That only makes sense if you're consuming roughly the same amount. If you have people who don't drink alcohol in your group, or don't eat meat/seafood/poultry, that's easily 15% to 30% difference in cost. I try to make sure those aren't sharing in alcohol or meat don't end up paying for it. It wouldn't be a problem if the difference was $5, but nowadays, in many cities this ends up being $10 per drink and an extra $10 on the entree...etc.
What they are going to create a new class? Move up to the next one? Class mobility is a fallacy that was invented to support the hierarchy. Its not an alternative system in any sense.
> Move up to the next one? Yes > Class mobility is a fallacy This is patently false. Social mobility is entirely possible, although it has gotten harder since the 1980's, but that wasn't your claim. > that was invented to support the hierarchy The hierarchy doesn't need "support". Class and social hierarchy has been observed in every culture since time immemorial. The radical and unfounded claim is the notion that we…
Exactly "systemic" changes. Changes relating to the system you are in.
It sounds insane/neurotic if you think some rich people sat in a meting deciding that would be a good way to suppress the poor. It might serve their richness but that does not mean they have hidden agendas in regards to it.
He speaking metaphorically. It makes little difference if the situation is contrived by a cabal versus many actors acting independently.
What i believe makes a difference is whether it happens cause of some malevolent force or if it is just a inherit part of our common reality.
If everyone willingly walked in to a pit of spikes it is their own fault. People should be allowed to act out their own free will as long as that act does not fuck with other people.
If someone tricked them with lies to do that then there is a problem.
That's a symptom of the value of time vs. money. If you're going to resent someone getting an extra 10$ worth of food you split the check based on costs. If 10$ is effectively meaningless but 200$ is not. Split it per person, it's fairly close and reasonably fast. If 200$ is effectively meaningless, rotate who pays it's faster. This can blend into: If 2,000$ if effectively meaningless, or you want to show off, who pa…
I'm not sure the time thing is particularly true but you're absolutely spot on with it being a value of money thing. And you're spot on with your characterisation as to how it works.
I’ll never forget how odd and uncomfortable it felt the first time I went out to lunch with co-workers (at my first “real” job) and this “split the check” thing happened. I always thought it just seemed so much fairer for everyone to figure out what they ate and pay for that. Kind of a culture shock.
To my mind, watering and feeding your lawn so that it is nice and green and exactly 1 1/2" tall all year round is a solid middle-class indicator. I find it kind of strange to spend that time and money on doing something that has little to no productive value. Not throwing daggers or anything, but every strata has things that are a bit strange about them. Yes, I know that upper class does that too, unless you are in t…
>I find it kind of strange to spend that time and money on doing something that has little to no productive value. That's entirely the point. Lawns originated in the middle ages as a status symbol. They demonstrated a) that you could afford to waste a perfectly useful piece of arable land and b) you could afford to pay a team of men to neatly scythe and shear it. It's hard to tell how much land an aristocrat actually…
Well not really My grandparents lived in a council house (with outside loo) in Birmingham (uk) and if you don't keep your garden looking nice the corporation would evict you.
This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…
> "The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean." For me, the weirdest part is the way in which the upper-middle class people I now associate and work with talk about "my people" (i.e. the working-class folks I grew up with). They mythologize them as the noble, hard-working, salt of the earth, when in reality, they clearly don't like most of their ha…
You know, this is interesting, because I have a different, but I think somewhat related, experience. I am from a pretty comfortable background but I'm a lifelong suburbanite and now live in one of Boston's less tony suburbs. I work in Boston, though, and there is a lot of kind of subterranean contempt for the "townies" who live in these places and their tastes and habits (naturally enough many of them I share and I like my neighbors, making that a little uncomfortable). People blithely say things like "oh, yeah, it's full of white trash over there." And if you tell people in Boston you're visiting from one of these suburbs a lot of them act like you just said you flew in from Idaho, never mind that a ton of people take a train to Boston every single day. People can find a lot of different reasons to be snobs.
I think it has to do with it being a finger food and having less "class" associated with it. It's not always an issue but I have definitely received judgment for ordering a burger
Friend's father is thoroughly blue blooded and won't even eat fries with his fingers (will use a knife and fork)
I was told by a friend in sales that it was an sacking offence for an IBM salesman to be seen in a Mc Donald's
I work with plenty of people that may put in a "hard" 2-3 hours of actual work a day. Comparing effort and every poor person I grew up with actually worked really hard. If anything it's coded language for 'working hard is a great way to end up poor'. PS: Consider all the "hardworking" people here on HN. Yes, long hours may be expected, but effort has little direct benefit.
There’s a difference between working hard and working smart. One is the brute force solution. The other uses a heuristic to narrow the solution space.
I think the point here is that in white-collar workplaces long hours are mostly an abstract way of signaling that you take the job seriously, not exhausting in the way that long hours in a job demanding physical labor would be.