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The State of Atom's Performance

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Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#241

Post by oblio »

Khaine wrote: post #215
jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel e…

I, and many others, don't care about "native". I've used Java applications and I will keep using them when they're useful.

And regarding Java application speed, IntelliJ is pretty much comparable with the "native" Visual Studio.

About the looks, I'm using right now Vim (GTK), Skype (I don't even know what toolkit it's using, but I'm pretty sure it's not native), Eclipse (SWT - sort of native), Pidgin (GTK), Firefox (XUL? I'm not 100% sure after 57), Chrome (Skia?), etc.

Users don't really care as long as the applications are useful and developed properly. I've used many crap and butt-ugly "native" apps...

I don't even use Atom, but this vitriol annoys me.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#242

Post by nkkollaw »

HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #162
nkkollaw wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about this. Configuration via JSON is common (Sublime Text, the most popular), I'd say that it's Atom that is bizzare on this aspect. As for "projects", I'd argue that if you open a folder, that's your project/workspace/whatever. Just thought I'd add this in case someone who doesn't know VS Code[ well] gets confused.

Configuration via JSON is common (Sublime Text, the most popular) I haven't tried Sublime Text. I was comparing VSCode with Visual Studio, and IDEs I consider to be in the same space like Netbeans and Eclipse.

VS Code is not an IDE, it's an editor (like Sublime Text).

Netbeans and Eclipse are both IDEs.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#243

Post by oblio »

ExactoKnight wrote: post #228
natecavanaugh wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, Atom is not my editor of choice (team Sublime!), but I really hope Atom succeeds. I do love it's hackability, and I would much rather have my plugins in JS, but alas, it's just not fast enough for me, yet. However I held onto Textmate until 2010 and Sublime wore me down, so I'm a laggard as well. So no negativity from me, because I just want a great editor that I can control and hack on. But I'll be real,…

This may sound like heresy but I seriously encourage checking out today's version of Visual Studio. I dev on Ruby and I am a hardcore Sublime user, which is about as far away from Microsoft-friendly as you can get, and I have been really impressed by it. Their app store is advanced, and crucially they allow Visual Studio to be setup with key bindings that match Sublime's, meaning switching over is really easy with al…

Yeah, but the Visual Studio installer still sucks, there's no portable version that I know of, and extending it is a major undertaking. Plus, it's Windows only (the version for Mac is mostly a different app).

It is a great app, I agree, but it also comes with its own legacy.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#244

Post by stouset »

lolc wrote: post #115
HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VSCode is really bizzare, in a good way. All the configuration is done through JSON files. It's a good editor as well as an IDE. There's no "projects" or "solutions" or wizards. I almost never run into issues with it. It doesn't feel like a microsoft product at all. Nothing like Visual Studio.

Maybe I should give VSCode a try then. I've been using Atom for a year now and some things just never felt good.

VS Code is basically everything Atom tries to be and/or should have been. To me it’s the spiritual successor of the original TextMate: works great out of the box, but can also be customized to fit your needs.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#245

Post by ExactoKnight »

romanovcode wrote: post #239
ExactoKnight wrote: post #227

Honestly, coming from a Ruby dev environment of all things, I have been really impressed Visual Studio lately. Never thought I'd see the day.

It's Visual Studio Code tho, Visual Studio is still alive and kicking as a huge behemoth IDE that works under Windows only.

I dev on a Mac, I'm anti-Microsoft through and through, and I thought the same. But seriously, their Mac version of Visual Studio (which I use) is now mature and I think in parts thanks to Microsoft taking steps to support bash, the ruby support so far has been great if you add the appropriate add ons. https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/visual-studio-mac/

Seriously as a ruby hipster I know all the love our community has in hating enterprise IDE's, then I grew up and realized they give you out of the box amazing functionality (like dynamic runtime variable value inspection and automatic app-wide class name refactoring) that makes manual refactors look like amateur hour.

These features are so powerful that I implore any Ruby dev using Atom or Sublime to at least give RubyMine a look if they don't want to give VisualStudio a look. You will be a stronger and faster programmer having them in your toolkit. Especially, and I repeat ESPECIALLY, for refactors of class names.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#246

Post by stupidcar »

Khaine wrote: post #215
jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel e…

If they're so bad, why are so they popular?

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2017#technology-mo...

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#247

Post by oblio »

oneweekwonder wrote: post #209
brennebeck wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a very substantial population.

Lowest common denominator. We put it on every kids desktop in the 1990's. We put it on every kids phone in the 2000's. We are shocked when they reinvent the wheel with in the 2010's. Now in 2020 they are trying to tell me all the kinks are worked out with frameworks and to get your javascript to work in a browsers you first need to compile/transpile it. Skip the whole multi-platform idea and focus on electron with al…

And before that every computer had C and Basic. There seems to be a common aspect here, the default programming languages suck :)

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#248

Post by ExactoKnight »

oblio wrote: post #243
ExactoKnight wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may sound like heresy but I seriously encourage checking out today's version of Visual Studio. I dev on Ruby and I am a hardcore Sublime user, which is about as far away from Microsoft-friendly as you can get, and I have been really impressed by it. Their app store is advanced, and crucially they allow Visual Studio to be setup with key bindings that match Sublime's, meaning switching over is really easy with al…

Yeah, but the Visual Studio installer still sucks, there's no portable version that I know of, and extending it is a major undertaking. Plus, it's Windows only (the version for Mac is mostly a different app). It is a great app, I agree, but it also comes with its own legacy.

I'm using the Mac version. Started with it today. It felt like getting all the benefits of RubyMine without the learning curve of needing to learn its non-Sublime macros, thanks to Visual Studio's option to automatically map key commands to mimic Vim, Sublime or Atom.

Not sure how difficult extending it is, but on day one in their app store I found all the important ruby bindings I needed to replicate what I value most in my Sublime set up: i.e. ruby linting and rubocop.

The switch was so painless I hardly noticed I wasn't using Sublime -- except in the moments of joy when I found the other powerful things it can do.

This stands in big contrast to RubyMine -- an IDE I absolutely also adore for its power -- but one that I found challenging to pick up due to its custom macros.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#250

Post by nnq »

espadrine wrote: post #224
nnq wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're doing something exciting, pick a boring technology. Not being exceedingly serious here but... you pretty much summed up why Python is so successful in AI/ML and science ;)

How does that follow? The boring technology in AI/ML is C++. Which is why TensorFlow etc. have a boring & hard C++ core, and a lovely & easy Python layer that transmits the computational graph to the core. Electron is similar: a boring & hard Chromium C++ core, and a lovely & easy JS layer. What pains me is that there is no reason to include libraries we don't use . Each Electron embeds a large amount of memory-consu…

Python is a boring technology. It's a 10+ years old language, like ~20 years behind cutting edge programming language research and implementation. Also, as for the programming style it encourages, it strongly nudges you against any "cool" way of programming: even the most basic kinds of functional programming is something you end up avoiding in P and "dumbing down" your code to more procedural idioms, and OOP over-over-over-architecting is something you just don't do because of the performance penalty and the lack of serious refactoring tools for large codebases. The side effect is that all code is more readable and understandble to anyone, including self-taught devs. JS itself is a boring language at its core too, except that it evolves faster than anything else. And the ecosystem is anything but boring (and also anything but sane...).

Cooler and more advanced (in terms of language features) languages are Julia (it has real macros, advanced type inference etc.) and even R (yeah, it's a mess, but as a language it's more advanced and "cooler" than Python). On the "web backend" scene Ruby is a way more "not boring" language, but the ML and science communities avoided it almost completely (I have a few theories as to why...).

And then there's the "truly cool" and "0% boring" languages like: Scala, Rust, Elixir, Clojure, Haskell, Elm, Crystal, Pony etc.

But don't get me wrong, I like Python for being what it is: an incredibly boring scripting language, that encourages a "stone age level" style of dumbed-down programming. With slightly awkward but stable libs (on which people agree almost unanimously of which to use). Because with Python I can focus on the product instead.

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