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A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

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Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#241

Post by Scarblac »

kqr wrote: post #223
pmontra wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you do 30-40 km/h on those bicycle roads or is there slow traffic such as 10-20 km/h bicycles and runners? In the latter case fast bicycles will stay on the main road no matter what. In my experience I also have much better visibility at junctions on the main road instead of on bicycle lanes that are closer to walls and hedges and have 3 or 4 meters less of buffer between me and incoming cars from the right. I'm…

> I also have much better visibility at junctions on the main road instead of on bicycle lanes that are closer to walls and hedges and have 3 or 4 meters less of buffer between me and incoming cars from the right. I'm also less visible to them. More anecdata: I take the bike when I can, and I have had motorists run into me a few times. Every single time has been on dedicated bike roads. Don't get me wrong -- I have h…

How did motorists end up on dedicated bike roads?

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#242

Post by zimpenfish »

papermule wrote: post #238
keir-rex wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a subset of drivers in the UK who have a resentment to sharing the road with cyclists. Their primary arguments follow; “car drivers pay road tax...” or “cyclists should be forced to sit a driving/road test...” blah blah. There are certainly cyclists who do nothing to help the reputation for the rest but car drivers fail to realise how vulnerable cyclists and motorcyclists are.

Why shouldn’t cyclists need a license to ride on the road? Others road users must have one. ---- It's a shame I'm getting downvoted, but the current state of affairs is that in cities like London bicycles, cars and trucks will be sharing the road for the near-mid future. I'd rather not have trucks or cars in the city, and ideally cyclists would have their own road separate from cars and pedestrians, but I think that'…

> All other road users must have one.

Not true. Horse drawn vehicles and horse riders don't.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-about-ani...

Invalid carriages also need no license.

https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs...

I'm sure other examples can be found.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#243

Post by jjgreen »

papermule wrote: post #238
keir-rex wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a subset of drivers in the UK who have a resentment to sharing the road with cyclists. Their primary arguments follow; “car drivers pay road tax...” or “cyclists should be forced to sit a driving/road test...” blah blah. There are certainly cyclists who do nothing to help the reputation for the rest but car drivers fail to realise how vulnerable cyclists and motorcyclists are.

Why shouldn’t cyclists need a license to ride on the road? Others road users must have one. ---- It's a shame I'm getting downvoted, but the current state of affairs is that in cities like London bicycles, cars and trucks will be sharing the road for the near-mid future. I'd rather not have trucks or cars in the city, and ideally cyclists would have their own road separate from cars and pedestrians, but I think that'…

Pedestrians don't.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#244

Post by usrusr »

nraynaud wrote: post #125
mrb wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

« make it a 4-way stop » You may be unaware, but 4-way stop signs are very uncommon outside of the US. In fact, in the UK they have always been formally prohibited by the Department for Transport in 2002. As a European driver, I discovered the existence of 4-way stop signs when I moved to the US, and I have always found them dangerous in a counter intuitive way: drivers are so used to 4-way stop intersections, that t…

They do exist in Germany.

Never seen one and I suspect that it would be illegal. The rules that govern which sign can go where in Germany are very detailed. And they are broken all the time, so I'm really not disputing the existence of counterexamples.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#245

Post by nicktelford »

angle_eyes wrote: post #143
subroutine wrote: post #83

Could it also have something to do with the wild horses hanging out at the intersection: https://goo.gl/qTSZWJ Perhaps they are not 'wild', I'm just not used to seeing horses near a roadway, without a fence between us. Is this a common thing in England?

It's not common throughout the country, but the roads in question are within the New Forest where there are a large number of ponies and other animals roaming free .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Forest#Ponies,_cattle,_pig...

It's also worth noting that while wild, New Forest animals are very comfortable around people and cars, to the degree that they're often wandering around in village centres, standing in the middle of the road etc.

If you go camping there, you should expect ponies to wander in to your campsite, especially if you leave food out. I've had one poking its head in to our tent before.

They basically have total right of way, and they know it.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#246

Post by lmm »

papermule wrote: post #238
keir-rex wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a subset of drivers in the UK who have a resentment to sharing the road with cyclists. Their primary arguments follow; “car drivers pay road tax...” or “cyclists should be forced to sit a driving/road test...” blah blah. There are certainly cyclists who do nothing to help the reputation for the rest but car drivers fail to realise how vulnerable cyclists and motorcyclists are.

Why shouldn’t cyclists need a license to ride on the road? Others road users must have one. ---- It's a shame I'm getting downvoted, but the current state of affairs is that in cities like London bicycles, cars and trucks will be sharing the road for the near-mid future. I'd rather not have trucks or cars in the city, and ideally cyclists would have their own road separate from cars and pedestrians, but I think that'…

Because, while it does occasionally happen, the risk of a cyclist killing or seriously injuring another road user is much lower than the risk of a car driver doing so. Unlicensed cyclists are a much lower risk to other road users than licensed drivers; if anything we should be looking to impose stricter licensing requirements on drivers.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#247

Post by _0ffh »

papermule wrote: post #238
keir-rex wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a subset of drivers in the UK who have a resentment to sharing the road with cyclists. Their primary arguments follow; “car drivers pay road tax...” or “cyclists should be forced to sit a driving/road test...” blah blah. There are certainly cyclists who do nothing to help the reputation for the rest but car drivers fail to realise how vulnerable cyclists and motorcyclists are.

Why shouldn’t cyclists need a license to ride on the road? Others road users must have one. ---- It's a shame I'm getting downvoted, but the current state of affairs is that in cities like London bicycles, cars and trucks will be sharing the road for the near-mid future. I'd rather not have trucks or cars in the city, and ideally cyclists would have their own road separate from cars and pedestrians, but I think that'…

Because they are not zooming around in a several hundred kilogram steel box? Also, I regularly walk on or over roads, with no license whatsoever. Outside, everyone's participating in traffic, one way or another.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#248

Post by papermule »

jjgreen wrote: post #243
papermule wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn’t cyclists need a license to ride on the road? Others road users must have one. ---- It's a shame I'm getting downvoted, but the current state of affairs is that in cities like London bicycles, cars and trucks will be sharing the road for the near-mid future. I'd rather not have trucks or cars in the city, and ideally cyclists would have their own road separate from cars and pedestrians, but I think that'…

Pedestrians don't.

Pedestrians are, with the exception of some rural areas, provided with dedicated carriage such as a pavement or sidewalk. The rules of crossing the road are well defined and in some European countries pedestrians are even arrested for J walking.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#249

Post by zimpenfish »

TomMarius wrote: post #173
Svip wrote: post #133

I feel a lot of commenters are simply focusing on what signs can do or what sort of junction to build, rather than focus on the fact that on high speed primary country roads, bicycles shouldn't be sharing the road with the cars. In Denmark, a lot of high speed roads (excluding motorways, of course) out in the country have separate dual-way bicycle lanes near it but not attached to it. (Example: https://i.imgur.com/dS…

The drivers shouldn't be punished for bad design of the road. A separate bike road should be constructed.

> The drivers shouldn't be punished for bad design of the road.

No excuse of "bad design" can work for blowing across a crossroaded "Give Way" at 37mph. That's reckless in any situation.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#250

Post by lmm »

TomMarius wrote: post #173
Svip wrote: post #133

I feel a lot of commenters are simply focusing on what signs can do or what sort of junction to build, rather than focus on the fact that on high speed primary country roads, bicycles shouldn't be sharing the road with the cars. In Denmark, a lot of high speed roads (excluding motorways, of course) out in the country have separate dual-way bicycle lanes near it but not attached to it. (Example: https://i.imgur.com/dS…

The drivers shouldn't be punished for bad design of the road. A separate bike road should be constructed.

Cyclists shouldn't be punished either. All too often these bike roads are built to be less safe than the main road.
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